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 Administrator
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#71273
Please post your questions below! Thank you!
 medialaw111516
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#72161
Can someone please explain the difference between A and C? I think I just got them mixed up
 Claire Horan
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#72391
Hi MediaLaw,


(A) can be diagrammed as follows:
Good source of used exercise machines :arrow: offers some well-maintained machines at reasonable prices

(C) would be diagrammed as:
place where one can buy well-maintained, used, reasonably priced exercise machines :arrow: Good place to buy used exercise machines

They are fairly close to reversals of each other, but there are also some slight differences. Let us know if you have any more questions!
 theamazingrace
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#81212
I am still a bit confused as to why C is correct and A is not. I choose A because of the mention of "any good source" since the stimulus mentions Gyms and Fitness centres as places to buy used exercise machines.

Thanks
 Robert Carroll
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#81390
Grace,

Answer choice (A) doesn't tell you what makes something a good source. It claims what is true of things that are good sources. So, if something is a good source, you could infer certain things about it. But the point of the argument in the stimulus is that we don't yet know what IS a good source, and want an answer that helps show us that gyms and fitness centers are good sources.

In rough outline, we want "Gyms are good sources."

Saying "A good source has these qualities" doesn't tell me what's a good source in the first place. If I could find a good source, answer choice (A) would then tell me additional facts about that good source. But I want to find a good source as my conclusion! Telling me what follows once I already have the conclusion is useless - I'm not there yet, and if I were there, there would be nothing else I need to know.

This is a general property of Strengthen, Assumption, and Justify answer choices. If the answer is a conditional and the concept in the conclusion is in the sufficient condition, the answer is going to be useless, because it's going to tell you where you can go AFTER proving the conclusion, and not help you make any progress TOWARD the conclusion.

Robert Carroll
 lichenfarmer
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#89293
Hi! I was wondering if I could get a general walkthrough of this question? For some reason, I don't really know how to diagram this and it's confusing me a lot. Thanks!
 Robert Carroll
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#89370
lichen,

I don't think I would diagram the stimulus at all. The conclusion is the first sentence, and this is a Strengthen question. So, given the premises, we want an answer that uses that premise information to make gyms and fitness centers good places to buy used exercise equipment. The information we know about such places from the premises is that they sell old machines at reasonable prices, and that the build quality of their machines is better than that of home machines. Further, they are likely to be well-maintained. So I'd look for an answer saying something like "Places with used machines of good quality, that was well-maintained, offered at reasonable prices, are good places to buy used exercise machines." That's just about what answer choice (C) says.

Robert Carroll
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 euniseg@uchicago.edu
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#109352
Can you explain how A is the mistaken reversal? Specifically, what words in the premise signal the relationship found in the correct answer?
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 Jeff Wren
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#109906
Hi eunise,

First, the word "any" appears in both Answer A and Answer C. "Any" is a sufficient indicator word, similar to "if, when, all." A very helpful list of sufficient and necessary indicator words is found in "The Logical Reasoning Bible" under the chapter on conditional reasoning. If you haven't done so already, I'd recommend studying this list and actively be on the lookout for these words whenever you're doing LR problems.

Before looking at this argument, it may be helpful to look at a (hopefully) simpler example.

Imagine the following argument.

Premise: John lives in Texas.
Conclusion: Therefore, John lives in the United States.

What would we need to justify/prove this conclusion? We would need a conditional answer that has Texas in the sufficient condition and the United States in the necessary condition, such as:

If someone lives in Texas, then that person lives in the United States.

If we add this statement to the argument, then it proves the conclusion that John lives in the United States.

Another way of saying the same statement would be:

Anyone who lives in Texas lives in the United States.

("Anyone" is a sufficient indicator, just like "any.")

In each of those sentences, "lives in Texas" is the sufficient condition, and "lives in the United States" is the necessary condition. In other words, we want the premise "lives in Texas" to be the sufficient condition and the conclusion "lives in the United States" to be the necessary condition so that we can get from the premise to the conclusion. In other words, the premise will then prove the conclusion because the premise would be sufficient to guarantee the conclusion based on the conditional statement.

However, imagine that there was another answer that has the terms backwards, such as:

If someone lives in the United States, then that person lives in the Texas.

This answer would not prove the conclusion, because we're trying to show that living in Texas proves that one is living in US, not the other way around. This answer would be a Mistaken Reversal of what we want. The way that this answer is worded, living in Texas does not prove that someone lives in the United States.

In this argument, we want to go from "a place where you can buy well-maintained, used exercise machines at reasonable prices," which gyms and fitness centers are mentioned as being in the premise to "a good place to buy exercise machines," which gyms and fitness centers are mentioned as being in the conclusion.

The basic argument is:

Premise: Gyms and fitness centers are places where you can buy well-maintained, used exercise machines at reasonable prices.

Conclusion: Gyms and fitness centers are good places to buy exercise machines.

What we want is an answer that says,

If there's a place where you can buy well-maintained, used exercise machines at reasonable prices, then that is a good place to buy exercise machines.

Another way to say this is:

Any place where you can buy well-maintained, used exercise machines at reasonable prices is a good place to buy exercise machines. This is Answer C.

Answer A is backwards in the same way that the statement "If someone lives in the United States, then that person lives in the Texas." was backwards in the example above. In both, the conclusion appears as the sufficient and the premise as the necessary, but we need the premise to be sufficient and the conclusion to be the necessary so that we can go from the premise to the conclusion.

One final point, while this question is technically a strengthen question rather than a Justify question, the discussion above still would apply. When you have conditional answers, as we do here, to strengthen the argument you need the conditional statement to match the logic of the argument, going from the premise to the conclusion (and not backwards). Of course, an answer could always be in the form of the contrapositive, so be on the lookout for this as well.

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