Setup and Rule Diagrams

[Dave Killoran]

Setup and Rule Diagram Explanation

This is a Pure Sequencing game.

This game is discussed in detail in our podcast recap of PT1 Logic Games at https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/podcast/104/


The rules combine to form the following sequencing diagram:

J91_Game_#3_setup_diagram 1.png

Note that the placement of O and M can appear deceiving if you just visually analyze the diagram. O appears to be “after” K and J, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for O to be hired before K. Similarly, M appears to be “after” H and N, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for M to be hired before H.

As with all sequences, you should analyze the possibilities for the first and last variables. In this case, either H or K is the partner who joined the firm in 1961, and O, I, or M is the partner who joined the firm in 1968.

[lety.gordill@gmail.com]

Would it be possible to get an explanation as to why it is possible for O to be hired before K and M before H?
Thank you

[Bob O'Halloran]

Hi Lety,
Thank you for your question.

For O, the only variables that must come before it are H and N. So O could be as early as 3rd, placing it before K.

Similarity, the only variables that must come before M are K and J, so it too could be as early as 3rd before H.

I hope this helps.

Bob

[Lemorinlaw]

Plz can you help me understand how to attack these extremely confusing and seemingly contradicting rules?

Let's begin with
Game 1 lesson 1...

Lesson explanation says:
“Note that the placement of O and M can appear deceiving if you just visually analyze the diagram. O appears to be “after” K and J, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for O to be hired before K. “
But why** and how ** can O be first before K if it is true that anything to the left of “ goes first?

The same question then applies to the following point made:
“Similarly, M appears to be “after” H and N, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for M to be hired before H. “
How is it possible for M to be hired before H if it comes after?
The following point then completely contradicts the relationship above by saying:
“As with all sequences, you should analyze the possibilities for the first and last variables. In this case, either H or K is the partner who joined the firm in 1961, and O, I, or M is the partner who joined the firm in 1968. “
If opposite ends of the diagram joined in 1961 then 1968 – how is it possible as the above writes, that they can go first?
How do we know how to answer the question with so many possibilities?
Please can you explain the concrete rules that apply to these sequences? Seems all over the place.
And so... going back to the first question (#14) in game 1 of lesson 1:
Can you break down how it’s possible that all of the answers except C are true? How is it possible for example that Hodges joined in 1963 if Hodges comes first? Etc.

Next problem in this game...
15 (Game 1 second question)
Again, my diagram is correct, just as the example, but I can’t figure out how the relationships work.
How are you counting the possibilities /relationships/years to get to figure out that Owens joined in '64?

Question 16...
The explanation to this answer says:
Since M, G, and I must all have joined the law firm after J, 1965 is the latest year in which J could have joined the law firm. Therefore, answer choice (D) is correct.

How do you know to basically count backwards to figure out the possibility?

Question 17...
Once you've created your timeline... and determined the years all four joined after O, couldn't you also reason when the first four joined? Why then is the answer 4 partners?

[Stephanie Oswalt]

Plz can you help me understand how to attack these extremely confusing and seemingly contradicting rules?

Let's begin with
Game 1 lesson 1...

Hi Lemorinlaw!

Thanks for the post! I have moved your post to the thread discussing this game setup. You can find the discussion of the individual questions on this page: viewforum.php?f=457

Our forum is sorted to help you find what you're looking for: Section Type (LG, LR, RC), Test #, Game/LR Section/Passage, and Question #. Hope this helps!

Thanks!

[Adam Tyson]

The key to understanding how O can be before K and J, for example, is that there is a difference between what appears to be true and what actually must be true, Lemor. O shows up in this diagram to the right of K and J, but not because there is any required connection between them. It's just because of the way it was drawn.

Apply the rules here - if the first three variables were HNO, would that break one of the rules? It would not! H is still before N, and N is still before O, and there is nothing else that must be before any of those three!

Think of this real-world situation: I always get out of bed before I get dressed and before I shave, and I shave before I shower. I always get dressed before I walk the dogs, and I walk them before I eat breakfast. I brush my teeth after I eat breakfast.

Now, do I shave before I brush my teeth? Shaving came pretty early in my sequence, and if I had drawn this all out it would probably show up on my scratch paper pretty far to the left, with only "get out of bed" further left. Brushing teeth would have landed far to the right in my diagram, after breakfast and dog walking and getting dressed. But there is no connection between these two things! I can do my morning routine in this order if I want:

1. Get out of bed
2. get dressed
3. walk the dogs
4. eat breakfast
5. brush my teeth
6. shave
7. shower

I've followed all the rules!

[Lemorinlaw]

Setup and Rule Diagram Explanation

This is a Pure Sequencing game.

This game is discussed in detail in our podcast recap of PT1 Logic Games at https://www.powerscore.com/lsat/podcast/104/


The rules combine to form the following sequencing diagram:

J91_Game_#3_setup_diagram 1.png

Note that the placement of O and M can appear deceiving if you just visually analyze the diagram. O appears to be “after” K and J, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for O to be hired before K. Similarly, M appears to be “after” H and N, but it does not have to be, and it is possible for M to be hired before H.

As with all sequences, you should analyze the possibilities for the first and last variables. In this case, either H or K is the partner who joined the firm in 1961, and O, I, or M is the partner who joined the firm in 1968.

If this is true... and if HNO and KJM in their own branches, why couldn't Gregg join the law firm in 1964?
Also, how is it possible that M and O joined the firm in 1964?
And if it appears that Hodges joined in 1961, how could he also join in 1963?
This type of rank question comes up a lot.

Thank you,
L

[Adam Tyson]

G cannot join in '64 because there are 4 other people who must join before them - H, N, K, and J. That means the earliest that G can join is 5th, in 1965. Just count how many variables must be before, or to the left of, G.

M can join as early as 3rd, because there are only 2 variables that must occur earlier than M - K and J. The same is true of O - it could go as early as 3rd because only H and N absolutely must precede it. Others could also precede M or else O, so they could go later than 3rd, and in fact they could be anywhere from 3rd to last in the order, so 4th is an option for each of them.

H could join 1st, but isn't required to do so because K could also go 1st. H must be before N, O, G, and I, but does not need to be before K, J, and M, so H could be anywhere from 1st through 4th. Check out these two possible orders and compare them to all of the rules, and you'll see that neither order violates a rule:

KJHMNGOI

HKNOJGIM

Remember that games like this are usually very flexible! You aren't trying to solve one single order, but only to see all the relative relationships within which there are many possible orders.