- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 13
- Joined: Mar 31, 2017
- Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:34 pm
#33906
What follows is the transcript of a conversation between a student, Brooke, and one of our Admissions gurus, Dave, regarding Brooke's choice between scholarship money offered to her by some schools or paying full price at others:
Brooke: “Deciding between $150,000 at Washington University, $135,000 at UVA, sticker price at Cornell, Duke, Penn, and Columbia, or at least with no money yet. Clerkship is goal out of law school followed by biglaw firm for 2-5 years and then public service litigation with possible political career in mind.”
Dave Killoran: “Hey Brooke, Thanks for the question. First off, congrats on all the acceptances--that is fantastic and gives you a great range of options! Second, I assume you mean a $135K scholarship at UVA, etc. Based on what you've mentioned, it would be very hard to turn down UVA to pay sticker at any school, even Columbia. Virginia is ranked 8th in the newest rankings and it's a great school with no weaknesses (and trust me, as a Duke grad, it pains me deeply to say that about UVA
Given the options and the fact that I'm generally debt-averse, I'd take the money, which would reduce it to Washington (and do you mean Washington University in St Louis, Washington + Lee, or even possibly the University of Washington? I've assumed it's WashU in St. Louis but I should double-check) and UVA. Of UVA and WashU, if all else is equal, the extra $15K is worth it to me, and so I'd still be inclined to go Virginia.
By the way, here's the LST Report on Virginia: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/uva/. Very solid, and around 70% of grads end up at a large firm or in a federal clerkship, so right in your general pathway. Please let me know what you think. Thanks!”
Brooke: "Thanks, Dave. I actually wrote it wrong: It's $35K/year at UVa, or $105K. Does that change your calculation? I would think not, but I'm interested to know if when the differential goes from $15K to $45K you would still go to UVA rather than WUSTL. Frankly, I'm having a hard time ignoring Columbia even at full freight. Is there ever a good reason to go for the highest ranked school just 'cause? Or if we're not talking HYS, then they're all about in the same boat? And, really, is WUSTL in the same boat? How about Cornell? Why is it ranked so low?"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Brooke, $10K a year doesn't affect too much to me here. That said, let me just say that given that you are feeling the pull of other schools at sticker price, you need to dive back down into all the at a and school info you have. this is not a decision you should make lightly, and you want to find a school that you love and that you will feel comfortable at! your first year grades will have a massive and determining effect on your chances for biglaw jobs and clerkships, so you want to start well. The best way to do that? To be a happy, healthy, comfortable student. So seek the school that is most likely to make that happen here.
The article above, although not written by me, talks about the prestige factor. For me, prestige doesn't help much if you have middling grades, and at good law schools that can easily happen--the competition is fierce. But regardless of your grades the debt you incur will be there after you finish, so I always prioritize what kind of hole each school leaves you in. Because it is just that--your law school debt is non-dischargeable and follows you until it is paid off. Sticker at Columbia is a hefty amount, and I personally would never pay it. But each person makes their own determination. I just want everyone here to know the facts before they dive in! so make sure you understand what the various costs are, and look at what kind of payment is required to service large debt loads. It can be eye-opening!
That's not to say I'm anti-Columbia; I'm not. It's a killer school that opens many doors. for the students who go there, they walk away with a degree that's speaks volumes. But at every school some people do great and some do not, and I always like to look at best and worst case outcomes. That ensures that you know the range of what could occur.
Good luck with the decision and please let us know what you decide!!"
Brooke: “Deciding between $150,000 at Washington University, $135,000 at UVA, sticker price at Cornell, Duke, Penn, and Columbia, or at least with no money yet. Clerkship is goal out of law school followed by biglaw firm for 2-5 years and then public service litigation with possible political career in mind.”
Dave Killoran: “Hey Brooke, Thanks for the question. First off, congrats on all the acceptances--that is fantastic and gives you a great range of options! Second, I assume you mean a $135K scholarship at UVA, etc. Based on what you've mentioned, it would be very hard to turn down UVA to pay sticker at any school, even Columbia. Virginia is ranked 8th in the newest rankings and it's a great school with no weaknesses (and trust me, as a Duke grad, it pains me deeply to say that about UVA
Given the options and the fact that I'm generally debt-averse, I'd take the money, which would reduce it to Washington (and do you mean Washington University in St Louis, Washington + Lee, or even possibly the University of Washington? I've assumed it's WashU in St. Louis but I should double-check) and UVA. Of UVA and WashU, if all else is equal, the extra $15K is worth it to me, and so I'd still be inclined to go Virginia.
By the way, here's the LST Report on Virginia: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/uva/. Very solid, and around 70% of grads end up at a large firm or in a federal clerkship, so right in your general pathway. Please let me know what you think. Thanks!”
Brooke: "Thanks, Dave. I actually wrote it wrong: It's $35K/year at UVa, or $105K. Does that change your calculation? I would think not, but I'm interested to know if when the differential goes from $15K to $45K you would still go to UVA rather than WUSTL. Frankly, I'm having a hard time ignoring Columbia even at full freight. Is there ever a good reason to go for the highest ranked school just 'cause? Or if we're not talking HYS, then they're all about in the same boat? And, really, is WUSTL in the same boat? How about Cornell? Why is it ranked so low?"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Brooke, $10K a year doesn't affect too much to me here. That said, let me just say that given that you are feeling the pull of other schools at sticker price, you need to dive back down into all the at a and school info you have. this is not a decision you should make lightly, and you want to find a school that you love and that you will feel comfortable at! your first year grades will have a massive and determining effect on your chances for biglaw jobs and clerkships, so you want to start well. The best way to do that? To be a happy, healthy, comfortable student. So seek the school that is most likely to make that happen here.
The article above, although not written by me, talks about the prestige factor. For me, prestige doesn't help much if you have middling grades, and at good law schools that can easily happen--the competition is fierce. But regardless of your grades the debt you incur will be there after you finish, so I always prioritize what kind of hole each school leaves you in. Because it is just that--your law school debt is non-dischargeable and follows you until it is paid off. Sticker at Columbia is a hefty amount, and I personally would never pay it. But each person makes their own determination. I just want everyone here to know the facts before they dive in! so make sure you understand what the various costs are, and look at what kind of payment is required to service large debt loads. It can be eye-opening!
That's not to say I'm anti-Columbia; I'm not. It's a killer school that opens many doors. for the students who go there, they walk away with a degree that's speaks volumes. But at every school some people do great and some do not, and I always like to look at best and worst case outcomes. That ensures that you know the range of what could occur.
Good luck with the decision and please let us know what you decide!!"