Full scholarship to NCCU, or waitlist at UNC?

[Administrator]

Below is a conversation between PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran and a student, Robert, regarding Robert's law school decision.

Robert: "Hi Dave, I've got an NC question on which I'm hoping you might be able to provide some guidance. I didn't get into Duke, like many others, but I did get a full tuition scholarship to NCCU, also in Durham. I'm on the waitlist at UNC as well, and took the June LSAT as a means of getting admitted there or getting money for Central.

I plan on staying in the state after graduating, but am not sure about which field of law in which I'd like to practice. My question is this, assuming I get off the waitlist: is it worth taking anything less than a full tuition scholarship from UNC to go to a Top50 school in the same area, even if it means paying full ticket price? Especially in state, the difference between Duke and Central might be pronounced, but I'm not sure if the gap between NCCU and UNC is worth three years of tuition. Central has had some issues with the state bar though, and kicked out 110 students of this class in order to get better with their bar passage rate. I've reached out to a number of legal professionals throughout the system to get a good opinion from them, but I was curious if you had a strong opinion either way. Thanks in advance for the help!

These are the LST figures for the two schools: cost of living for both would be similar, obviously both schools have great programs for social service, but these are the other stats:

UNC: $23,049 a year tuition
NCCU: $19,040.

Bar passage rate: UNC: 80%
NCCU: 55%

LST employment score: UNC 67.7%
NCCU 21%

Underemployment score: UNC 17.4%
NCCU 39.9%

Large firm score: UNC 24%
NCCU 4%

Small firm score: UNC 7%
NCCU 14%

Clerkship score: UNC 6.7%
NCCU 1.2 %"

Dave Killoran: "Hey Robert,

Thanks for reaching out! As a Duke grad myself, I typically have strong feelings about schools in the region However, somewhat surprisingly perhaps, I tend to be a fan of UNC (I spent a fair bit of time in Chapel Hill as an undergrad and liked the students and campus quite a bit).

In this instance, I have real concerns about NCCU. You are right that they have been seriously struggling, and they are out of compliance with the ABA (https://www.wral.com/nccu-law-school-ou ... /17282390/ andhttps://www.newsobserver.com/news/local ... 82004.html). This is a very serious problem, and suggests the issues at the school are not just surface ones. The ABA has been cracking down recently, and some schools have closed entirely, leaving many students high and dry. These factors alone lead me to tread with great caution.

Even if these issues weren't present, their employment rate is abysmal. A free education and very low hope of being employed isn't a great outcome, especially with looming accreditation issues. Normally you want that free tuition to go along with a school that at least gives you decent employment stats, but 30.1% is rough (those are the 2017 numbers: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/nccu/unc/). Take a look at the LSAT/GPA stats as well: these are two very different student bodies in terms of prior achievement.

UNC on the other hand gives you a name that everyone recognizes, a much larger alumni network, and of course employment stats that are night and day with NCCU, plus no accreditation problem and none expected.

So, for me, it would be tough to pass up UNC in favor of a Tier 4 school on the edge of compliance. I hope UNC comes through with some money for you if they pull you off the waitlist, though!

Please let me know if this helps. Thanks!"

Robert: "Thank you for the help! I'll keep you updated as we get into August with what happens!"

[Adam Tyson]

I'll chime in here because I am an NCCU grad, albeit from their night program (whose LSAT, bar passage, and employment numbers were, at least at the time I attended, substantially higher than those for the traditional program, although most of us were already employed full time so that of course skewed those numbers in our favor). While I feel that I got a great education and was well prepared for the Bar Exam (passed first time, as did most of my night-program colleagues), there was no question that the name factor was a huge issue when I went looking to leave my cushy corporate job and get into a mid-sized firm. The Duke, UNC, and Wake Forest alums ruled the hiring everywhere I looked, and many (most?) NCCU grads were either hanging up their own shingles or else taking jobs at small firms with little opportunity for mentoring and professional growth. My advice, especially given the hard times NCCU is going through now, is that the debt from UNC will be worth it when you get the job that will help you pay it off. Go Heels!