Should LSAC and law schools have more flexible GPA policies?

[Hordfest]

I'm very curious to hear Dave and Jon's thoughts on this, perhaps during a podcast sometime. I really don't understand why LSAC GPA calculations are so restrictive.

The first policy I take issue with is the idea that your undergraduate GPA is locked as soon as you get your BA. Decisions we make while 18 or 19 years old should not have such an irreversible impact on scholarship and admissions chances in my opinion. Wouldn't allowing a graduate to retake a limited number of undergraduate classes for a higher grade (let's say 3 classes) demonstrate admirable qualities such as perseverance, determination, and personal growth? Personally if I were an admissions official it would mean more to me to see a 25 year old retake a hard biology class for a better grade than it would be to see an 18 year old locked into a bad grade in that 5 credit hour biology class because of some early college struggles. Yes there is the possibility of a GPA addendum, but most undergraduates don't have a worthy addendum to write, they just simply screwed up, like many teens do.

Another policy that I think is ridiculous is how little graduate GPA counts towards law school admission. Sure law schools admissions officials will consider it to a degree, but from my understanding, a student with above median LSAT and GPA scores with no graduate classes will get better offers 99 out of a 100 times compared to a student with under median LSAT and GPA scores with a 4.0 in grad school and a thesis paper along with it, holding all else equal. This seems like a seriously inadequate way of measuring law school success since graduate school experience surely resembles law school more than undergraduate classes.

Both of these issues ultimately point to the same underlying problem: law schools who want to prioritize students who experienced personal growth in their academics and career after the end of their first undergraduate degree are effectively penalized in the form of lower rankings.

What can be done to fix this? Even with the addition of Above the Law and potentially PowerScore rankings the U.S. News & World rankings will still be king.

[Dave Killoran]

Hi Hord,

I would LOVE to address this in a podcast, and we have a mailbag coming up in about two weeks and so I will

In the meantime, there's nothing that can be done because the GPA policy is tied to rankings, which are rigid. So, because the ranking use undergrad GPA for their calculations, it flows down through the law schools, who then feel forced to focus on those undergrad GPAs as well. This then penalizes grad students, who might have gotten a degree ten years later with stellar grades that are then effectively ignored. Critics argue about grad GPA inflation (which is real) but the discounting of grad GPAs is a problem in my eyes.

By the way, I also dislike the CAS grade conversion policy which calculates any grade on a transcript, including retaken classes. So if you got an F and then retook the same class and received an A, it counts both grades (even if your school then ignores the F). This has caused many a GPA to suddenly fall when converted. Thus, even with your "grad retake" idea, the penalty would still exist :/

Underneath it all, adcomms are real people and they read into things like retakes and the count life struggles. The problem is that all to often they are at the mercy of the rankings machine that drives way too much of this process and the law school field in general.

More on this on the podcast, and thanks a ton for the suggestion!

[Hordfest]

Hi Hord,

I would LOVE to address this in a podcast, and we have a mailbag coming up in about two weeks and so I will

In the meantime, there's nothing that can be done because the GPA policy is tied to rankings, which are rigid. So, because the ranking use undergrad GPA for their calculations, it flows down through the law schools, who then feel forced to focus on those undergrad GPAs as well. This then penalizes grad students, who might have gotten a degree ten years later with stellar grades that are then effectively ignored. Critics argue about grad GPA inflation (which is real) but the discounting of grad GPAs is a problem in my eyes.

By the way, I also dislike the CAS grade conversion policy which calculates any grade on a transcript, including retaken classes. So if you got an F and then retook the same class and received an A, it counts both grades (even if your school then ignores the F). This has caused many a GPA to suddenly fall when converted. Thus, even with your "grad retake" idea, the penalty would still exist :/

Underneath it all, adcomms are real people and they read into things like retakes and the count life struggles. The problem is that all to often they are at the mercy of the rankings machine that drives way too much of this process and the law school field in general.

More on this on the podcast, and thanks a ton for the suggestion!

Thanks for your thoughts! Perhaps the conversion policy should go away as well. That, combined with a limited number of post undergrad retakes might at least give students a chance to boost their undergraduate GPA by a few tenths of a point.

I guess it just stinks to feel helpless. I have a 3.35 undergrad, a 3.8 masters degree in History, and five years of management experience in compliance at a credit union, have published a book, and yet if I don't ace my LSAT (and even if I do), my undergraduate GPA will close so many doors to me.

Also, no problem for the suggestion. These were just my frustrations as an outsider going through the process. It would be far more illustrative for me to see the opinion and ideas of people who have been operating within the industry for a long time. I can't wait to see you guys share your thoughts on how to improve the system during your mailbag podcast.

[Dave Killoran]

The conversion policy is the first step towards a more student-friendly set of policies, so I'd love to see that changed immediately. But behind that, USNews is an issue—they are driving the train here (or rather, their readership is), and until they alter their policies, very little of the rest of this will change. I know it's frustrating, but you aren't alone in sharing that frustration!