- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:30 am
#74623
Below is a question from a prospective law student, Peter, and advice from PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran.
Peter: "Hi Dave,
I’ve been offered $120K from Northwestern and $35K from Columbia. I have requested that Columbia reconsider their offer but am not expecting much if any increase. Assuming my 529 doesn’t sustain significant losses during this soon-to-be recession, NU will require me to take out about $100K in loans, Columbia $200K.
In terms of my career goals, I would ideally like to obtain a federal clerkship, though I know neither school is great for that. I intend to work in Big Law, but I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a Big Law job if I didn’t like it––at least not for more than a couple of years. At the moment I picture myself working in Big Law for a few years, then transitioning to public interest, but I’m not married to this plan. I would describe myself as vaguely ambitious; I want to be doing the most interesting work I can in the long term. (And I have no interest in trial work.)
I would also really like to attend Columbia. I love NYC (I have never visited Chicago), Morningside Heights, and, frankly, I like its prestige.
At a glance, Columbia’s LRAP program also seems to be superior, with a higher income threshold and the possibility of applying after leaving a private-sector job. On the other hand, I’m hesitant to rely on LRAP at all, since the schools could cancel these programs at any moment if they run into financial difficulty, and they are at least partially dependent on the federal program, which seems to help very few attorneys.
Do you think Columbia in my case is worth the extra $100K of debt?
Thanks for your help!
Peter"
Dave Killoran:
"Hey Peter,
Thanks for the message! And congrats on some fine options–no matter what you choose here you will be good I’d wager
There’s a bit of an internal conflict here because on the one hand you mention wanting to work in biglaw but then also wanting to leave that job category if you don’t like it. That’s a problem because the more debt you take on, the less freedom of choice you will have due to monthly payments. So, your debt choice may constrain those public service options going forward, LRAP or not.
That aside, your two schools compare as follows:
* Columbia, ranked #4: COA $200K. Power employment percentage (all clerkships + firm employment at firms of 250 or more) = 5.6% + 74.4% = 80%
* Northwestern, ranked #9: COA $100K. Power employment percentage = 9.1% + 65.9% = 75%
These are both very good outcomes, so the choice isn’t obvious. It’s essentially down to a few things for you: the extra 5% in power hiring/prestige costs you $100K, and you also would get to live in a place you clearly like vs one you don’t know anything about. That last factor is important to me since people tend to perform better in places where they are comfortable and enjoying themselves.
Columbia is a killer school and as close to a “lock” as far as employment as you can get out there (along with HYS and Chicago). But it gives you less flexibility for w while due to paying off that extra $100K. Northwestern gives you very similar outcomes for a cost that’s significantly more manageable, which would allow you greater flexibility to walk away from biglaw and do what appeals to you.
thus, the choice here is about your preferences, and those aren’t entirely clear above. I believe you need to spend some time looking at different options and talking to people in the field about possible directions for your career. While you may be “vaguely ambitious” (my new fave phrase btw!) you also were attracted to the appeal of Columbia so you might be more ambitious than you think. I said above there’s no wrong choice here, and if you are truly debt averse you go Northwestern; if you want to shoot for the highest possible launch point, you go Columbia.
I’d love to hear the final decision so please keep us posted. Thanks!"
Peter: "Hi Dave,
I’ve been offered $120K from Northwestern and $35K from Columbia. I have requested that Columbia reconsider their offer but am not expecting much if any increase. Assuming my 529 doesn’t sustain significant losses during this soon-to-be recession, NU will require me to take out about $100K in loans, Columbia $200K.
In terms of my career goals, I would ideally like to obtain a federal clerkship, though I know neither school is great for that. I intend to work in Big Law, but I wouldn’t want to be stuck in a Big Law job if I didn’t like it––at least not for more than a couple of years. At the moment I picture myself working in Big Law for a few years, then transitioning to public interest, but I’m not married to this plan. I would describe myself as vaguely ambitious; I want to be doing the most interesting work I can in the long term. (And I have no interest in trial work.)
I would also really like to attend Columbia. I love NYC (I have never visited Chicago), Morningside Heights, and, frankly, I like its prestige.
At a glance, Columbia’s LRAP program also seems to be superior, with a higher income threshold and the possibility of applying after leaving a private-sector job. On the other hand, I’m hesitant to rely on LRAP at all, since the schools could cancel these programs at any moment if they run into financial difficulty, and they are at least partially dependent on the federal program, which seems to help very few attorneys.
Do you think Columbia in my case is worth the extra $100K of debt?
Thanks for your help!
Peter"
Dave Killoran:
"Hey Peter,
Thanks for the message! And congrats on some fine options–no matter what you choose here you will be good I’d wager
There’s a bit of an internal conflict here because on the one hand you mention wanting to work in biglaw but then also wanting to leave that job category if you don’t like it. That’s a problem because the more debt you take on, the less freedom of choice you will have due to monthly payments. So, your debt choice may constrain those public service options going forward, LRAP or not.
That aside, your two schools compare as follows:
* Columbia, ranked #4: COA $200K. Power employment percentage (all clerkships + firm employment at firms of 250 or more) = 5.6% + 74.4% = 80%
* Northwestern, ranked #9: COA $100K. Power employment percentage = 9.1% + 65.9% = 75%
These are both very good outcomes, so the choice isn’t obvious. It’s essentially down to a few things for you: the extra 5% in power hiring/prestige costs you $100K, and you also would get to live in a place you clearly like vs one you don’t know anything about. That last factor is important to me since people tend to perform better in places where they are comfortable and enjoying themselves.
Columbia is a killer school and as close to a “lock” as far as employment as you can get out there (along with HYS and Chicago). But it gives you less flexibility for w while due to paying off that extra $100K. Northwestern gives you very similar outcomes for a cost that’s significantly more manageable, which would allow you greater flexibility to walk away from biglaw and do what appeals to you.
thus, the choice here is about your preferences, and those aren’t entirely clear above. I believe you need to spend some time looking at different options and talking to people in the field about possible directions for your career. While you may be “vaguely ambitious” (my new fave phrase btw!) you also were attracted to the appeal of Columbia so you might be more ambitious than you think. I said above there’s no wrong choice here, and if you are truly debt averse you go Northwestern; if you want to shoot for the highest possible launch point, you go Columbia.
I’d love to hear the final decision so please keep us posted. Thanks!"