- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Jul 31, 2020 9:58 am
#77598
Below is a question from accepted law student Noah, and a response by PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran, regarding Noah's law school decision.
Noah: "Hey Dave,
I am currently stuck in a situation that thankfully is a good problem but one that I am looking for advice on. I have committed to New York Law School on a $40,000/year scholarship with the conditions that I stay in the top 50% of my class. I just found out today that I have been accepted off of the waitlist at Yeshiva University (Cardozo) Law and given an unconditional $20,000/year scholarship.
After doing all of the relevant research, Cardozo is ranked 53 nationally, with a bar passage rate of 85%, and a median starting (private sector) salary of $70k/year. The full time tuition for Cardozo is $62,408/year, and with my scholarship will result in a total attendance cost of $42,408/year. NYLS is ranked 129 nationally, with a bar passage rate of 59%, and a median starting (private sector) salary of $100k/year. The full time tuition for NYLS is $54,382/year, and with my scholarship will result in a total attendance cost of $14,382/year.
I attended the University of Maryland and graduated with a 3.7 GPA and degrees in Criminology/criminal justice, and Communications. Based on my background, I am aspiring to practice as an attorney and potentially looking litigation, criminal law, personal injury/medical malpractice law, and various other concentrations. I have yet to decide whether I am looking to work in a big law firm or a medium/small firm. Regardless, I am looking for the best option to keep all of my doors open and give me the best chance of finding a good job with a good salary.
As you can see, there is a drastic difference in total cost of attendance, and starting salary leaning towards NYLS. There is also a drastic difference in ranking, bar passage rate, and reputation, leaning towards Cardozo. Based on my past performance, I know that I will be able to work hard and succeed in law school, regardless of the school I attend. Based on my LSAT score and college GPA, I definitely feel that I will be able to perform closer to the top of my class at NYLS.
Any thoughts or recommendations that you have would be greatly appreciated!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Noah,
Thanks for the message! This is an interesting one. A few thoughts:
• I’m not a big fan of conditional scholarships. No matter how much faith you have in yourself, law school is unlike any learning you’ve done before. And there’s also no way to predict what might happen in life, such as if you should fall ill, etc. Or, you know, a pandemic
• I’m skeptical of the NYLS private placement salary number. As in, very suspicious. Is it a case of lies, damn lies, and statistics? Because if only a handful of their top students get private jobs, that would make the salary number there look much better than reality. I say this because in most areas NYLS trails Cardozo, especially in big firm placement. So, I’d do more research there if you can.
• NYLS has an attrition rate that is fairly substantial: 6.9% of 1Ls. To me that’s always a bad sign, and I flag it to you so you are aware. One out of every fourteen students in your class are gone at the end of the year. By comparison, Cardozo’s rate is 1.4%.
The above three points aside, you are looking at NYLS at $42K if things go reasonably well vs Cardozo at three times that, or $127K. Here’s where you need to try to narrow your interests, because you gave a really broad rundown of options: “Based on my background, I am aspiring to practice as an attorney and potentially looking litigation, criminal law, personal injury/medical malpractice law, and various other concentrations. I have yet to decide whether I am looking to work in a big law firm or a medium/small firm.” For some of those, NYLS is perfect, but for others, it’s Cardozo. So, I would suggest sitting down for a bit and doing some research, talk to some attorneys, and generally see if you can make the window of choice a bit less than it is currently.
I can see an argument for both options, so I think you need to look inside your aspirations for the final choice. Let your career goals be the guide here!
Thanks!"
Noah: "Hey Dave,
Thank you so much for the insightful and helpful information! I was able to negotiate slightly with Cardozo and they raised my scholarship by $6,000 per year. Based on your information and discussing with a few others, I came to the decision to accept my Cardozo seat for the Fall. I felt that it would open more doors for me and allow me to really explore all of the potential avenues of law that I may want to practice. Thank you again for all of your help!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Noah,
That’s great–congratulations! I think you’ve made an excellent choice:)
Good luck!"
Noah: "Hey Dave,
I am currently stuck in a situation that thankfully is a good problem but one that I am looking for advice on. I have committed to New York Law School on a $40,000/year scholarship with the conditions that I stay in the top 50% of my class. I just found out today that I have been accepted off of the waitlist at Yeshiva University (Cardozo) Law and given an unconditional $20,000/year scholarship.
After doing all of the relevant research, Cardozo is ranked 53 nationally, with a bar passage rate of 85%, and a median starting (private sector) salary of $70k/year. The full time tuition for Cardozo is $62,408/year, and with my scholarship will result in a total attendance cost of $42,408/year. NYLS is ranked 129 nationally, with a bar passage rate of 59%, and a median starting (private sector) salary of $100k/year. The full time tuition for NYLS is $54,382/year, and with my scholarship will result in a total attendance cost of $14,382/year.
I attended the University of Maryland and graduated with a 3.7 GPA and degrees in Criminology/criminal justice, and Communications. Based on my background, I am aspiring to practice as an attorney and potentially looking litigation, criminal law, personal injury/medical malpractice law, and various other concentrations. I have yet to decide whether I am looking to work in a big law firm or a medium/small firm. Regardless, I am looking for the best option to keep all of my doors open and give me the best chance of finding a good job with a good salary.
As you can see, there is a drastic difference in total cost of attendance, and starting salary leaning towards NYLS. There is also a drastic difference in ranking, bar passage rate, and reputation, leaning towards Cardozo. Based on my past performance, I know that I will be able to work hard and succeed in law school, regardless of the school I attend. Based on my LSAT score and college GPA, I definitely feel that I will be able to perform closer to the top of my class at NYLS.
Any thoughts or recommendations that you have would be greatly appreciated!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Noah,
Thanks for the message! This is an interesting one. A few thoughts:
• I’m not a big fan of conditional scholarships. No matter how much faith you have in yourself, law school is unlike any learning you’ve done before. And there’s also no way to predict what might happen in life, such as if you should fall ill, etc. Or, you know, a pandemic
• I’m skeptical of the NYLS private placement salary number. As in, very suspicious. Is it a case of lies, damn lies, and statistics? Because if only a handful of their top students get private jobs, that would make the salary number there look much better than reality. I say this because in most areas NYLS trails Cardozo, especially in big firm placement. So, I’d do more research there if you can.
• NYLS has an attrition rate that is fairly substantial: 6.9% of 1Ls. To me that’s always a bad sign, and I flag it to you so you are aware. One out of every fourteen students in your class are gone at the end of the year. By comparison, Cardozo’s rate is 1.4%.
The above three points aside, you are looking at NYLS at $42K if things go reasonably well vs Cardozo at three times that, or $127K. Here’s where you need to try to narrow your interests, because you gave a really broad rundown of options: “Based on my background, I am aspiring to practice as an attorney and potentially looking litigation, criminal law, personal injury/medical malpractice law, and various other concentrations. I have yet to decide whether I am looking to work in a big law firm or a medium/small firm.” For some of those, NYLS is perfect, but for others, it’s Cardozo. So, I would suggest sitting down for a bit and doing some research, talk to some attorneys, and generally see if you can make the window of choice a bit less than it is currently.
I can see an argument for both options, so I think you need to look inside your aspirations for the final choice. Let your career goals be the guide here!
Thanks!"
Noah: "Hey Dave,
Thank you so much for the insightful and helpful information! I was able to negotiate slightly with Cardozo and they raised my scholarship by $6,000 per year. Based on your information and discussing with a few others, I came to the decision to accept my Cardozo seat for the Fall. I felt that it would open more doors for me and allow me to really explore all of the potential avenues of law that I may want to practice. Thank you again for all of your help!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Noah,
That’s great–congratulations! I think you’ve made an excellent choice:)
Good luck!"