- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:24 am
#79604
Below is a law school admissions question by a student, Randy, and PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran's response.
Randy: "Hey Dave,
I am just preparing my applications now, and hope to score at/over a 175 LSAT and ask for fee waivers, but I am wondering if it even matters. I have more than 100k of undergrad and grad school debt. I am committed to paying as little as possible for law school. Ideally a full ride but that might be negotiable based on ranking. I also really want to go to a school with a great program which for me means strong international focus/international law programs/clinics and a strong clinical program in general. I am also prioritizing low cost of living, though again have made an exception for Northwestern and Chicago.
As a supersplitter with an LSAT presumably above 99th percentile but a uGPA around 2.5 would international work experience and a grad GPA of 3.9ish be enough to incline any of my T14 schools to spend a 75%-full scholarship on me or should I just concentrate outside of T14? My top choices in a perfect world are Duke, UVA, Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Texas, Wash U, and only with major scholarship: Georgetown for context. Beyond that I would likely delay a cycle but have Emory, Penn, Vanderbilt, hometown UNC, Minn, ND, W&L, W&M, ASU, BU, and Georgia as interesting schools. I hope to work in international law, ideally human/civil rights and have no interest in BigLaw. Longterm I would prefer a mid-sized or international city to live in.
Could major scholarships be on the table at T14 or is it not worth stressing over? Given that I want to work internationally would I be better off taking my likely full/near full ride at Wash U over smaller scholarships at the T14? How would your answer change at 0, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 scholarship at T14?
I do not know if you have good answers for these questions, I just have been feeling like my Duke/NU dreams are not realistic lately and, given there is nothing I can do about a 10 year old undergrad GPA, am wondering if it even matters if I apply aside from maybe helping to negotiate more aid at Wash U."
Dave Killoran: "Hi Randy,
Thanks for the message. I can provide some insight, but candidates who come in with numbers like yours are rather rare, so there’s not a whole lot of data on acceptance rates.
The first, and most important, point here is that your undergrad GPA is the controlling one, to the extent that your grad GPA is just a footnote. Grad GPA is not reported to the ABA, and there’s a sense among adcomms that grad GPAs are routinely inflated. It’s are a plus, but it will in no way offset your undergrad GPA. That’s the one that gets reported, and it is how the law schools will view and rate you
This means that almost immediately your chances for admission in the T14 plummet significantly, and I’m sorry to be the one to deliver that news. And with acceptances being rather rare with that GPA, you can imagine the chances for any scholarship money at a T14 are extremely low. So, if I were in your shoes I’d not spend a whole lot of time on the T14.
As for schools outside the T14, I think the range of outcomes/financial offers right now is far too big to make projections. I’m not certain at all that you’d be looking at big scholarships at every school you mentioned however. At WashU, for example, you have a reasonable chance at an admit but it’s not a lock by any means, and when that occurs the scholarships they offer are affected in a downward manner. And so it will more likely be a situation where you make final decisions once you have all the numbers in front of you vs speculating now when we have very few ideas how your unique numerical combination will play out
I personally hate the policy on old GPAs being controlling still, but that’s the way it’s been for decades in this field. So, my best advice is to take it step by step: get that high LSAT score first–this is critically important for you! Then apply and see what happens, and so on. You’ll know a lot more in a few months and that will narrow the likely outcomes and make it easier to discuss"
Randy: "Hey Dave,
I am just preparing my applications now, and hope to score at/over a 175 LSAT and ask for fee waivers, but I am wondering if it even matters. I have more than 100k of undergrad and grad school debt. I am committed to paying as little as possible for law school. Ideally a full ride but that might be negotiable based on ranking. I also really want to go to a school with a great program which for me means strong international focus/international law programs/clinics and a strong clinical program in general. I am also prioritizing low cost of living, though again have made an exception for Northwestern and Chicago.
As a supersplitter with an LSAT presumably above 99th percentile but a uGPA around 2.5 would international work experience and a grad GPA of 3.9ish be enough to incline any of my T14 schools to spend a 75%-full scholarship on me or should I just concentrate outside of T14? My top choices in a perfect world are Duke, UVA, Northwestern, Chicago, Michigan, Texas, Wash U, and only with major scholarship: Georgetown for context. Beyond that I would likely delay a cycle but have Emory, Penn, Vanderbilt, hometown UNC, Minn, ND, W&L, W&M, ASU, BU, and Georgia as interesting schools. I hope to work in international law, ideally human/civil rights and have no interest in BigLaw. Longterm I would prefer a mid-sized or international city to live in.
Could major scholarships be on the table at T14 or is it not worth stressing over? Given that I want to work internationally would I be better off taking my likely full/near full ride at Wash U over smaller scholarships at the T14? How would your answer change at 0, 1/3, 1/2, 3/4 scholarship at T14?
I do not know if you have good answers for these questions, I just have been feeling like my Duke/NU dreams are not realistic lately and, given there is nothing I can do about a 10 year old undergrad GPA, am wondering if it even matters if I apply aside from maybe helping to negotiate more aid at Wash U."
Dave Killoran: "Hi Randy,
Thanks for the message. I can provide some insight, but candidates who come in with numbers like yours are rather rare, so there’s not a whole lot of data on acceptance rates.
The first, and most important, point here is that your undergrad GPA is the controlling one, to the extent that your grad GPA is just a footnote. Grad GPA is not reported to the ABA, and there’s a sense among adcomms that grad GPAs are routinely inflated. It’s are a plus, but it will in no way offset your undergrad GPA. That’s the one that gets reported, and it is how the law schools will view and rate you
This means that almost immediately your chances for admission in the T14 plummet significantly, and I’m sorry to be the one to deliver that news. And with acceptances being rather rare with that GPA, you can imagine the chances for any scholarship money at a T14 are extremely low. So, if I were in your shoes I’d not spend a whole lot of time on the T14.
As for schools outside the T14, I think the range of outcomes/financial offers right now is far too big to make projections. I’m not certain at all that you’d be looking at big scholarships at every school you mentioned however. At WashU, for example, you have a reasonable chance at an admit but it’s not a lock by any means, and when that occurs the scholarships they offer are affected in a downward manner. And so it will more likely be a situation where you make final decisions once you have all the numbers in front of you vs speculating now when we have very few ideas how your unique numerical combination will play out
I personally hate the policy on old GPAs being controlling still, but that’s the way it’s been for decades in this field. So, my best advice is to take it step by step: get that high LSAT score first–this is critically important for you! Then apply and see what happens, and so on. You’ll know a lot more in a few months and that will narrow the likely outcomes and make it easier to discuss
"