- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Jan 29, 2021 12:10 pm
#83635
A prospective law student, Jim, asks PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran for advice in the conversation below.
Jim: "Hi Dave,
I have been stuck for some time now on a decision between a few NY based law schools.
I was admitted to Fordham (about 300k), which is the highest ranked school I could attend anywhere. However, I was also given full scholarships at St.Johns and Brooklyn Law, in addition to approximately a third of tuition at Cardozo (3 year total of 115k).
I will be taking out loans for the full cost of whatever school I attend, in addition to living expenses. For someone who has never been in debt before, I am pretty concerned about having that financial obligation limit my career options to only the highest paying/highest pressure jobs.
I foresee two potential undesirable scenarios with regard to either taking the money or the prestige:
1) If I take the money and run, I will obviously have to work my tail off to put myself in the same conversation as a Fordham grad, not to mention Columbia, NYU, and the other NY school grads. If I fail to place in the top 10 or 25 percent of my class, where does that leave me in terms of career options in a highly competitive job market?
2) If I attend Fordham at sticker price, I am sure I will have more connections and job advantages coming out, but the question is whether I want to work in Big Law or not. What happens if I leave Fordham after three years with 300k in debt, and don’t want to work a Big Law job? Or what if I don’t rank well in my class, and don’t even have the option to work a Big Law job that I might need to pay off that debt?
Frankly, this position is made more difficult by my not knowing what exactly what I want to do with my law degree. I’d like to work towards more than just my own bottom line in my career, and perhaps do something public interest oriented. At the same time, I have worked jobs where I am just scraping by, and it is not a fun place to be.
I understand this is a pretty subjective choice, but any additional insight or info would be really helpful."
Dave Killoran: "Hi Jim,
Thanks for the message! This is indeed another classic money vs prestige decision so let’s look at it. With question #1, that changes every year, and some years are just fine and others it’s a tough ride. There’s just no way to know in advance, so if you’re like me, I always assume it will be on the tougher side when you come out. that way, everything else is a bonus.
With #2, you have to look at the numbers: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/fordham/cardozo. employment scores are very similar, but inside those numbers you can see Fordham has advantages in hiring at national firms (biglaw!) among others. That advantage (47.7% vs 17.7%) is what costs you roughly $185K more according to your estimates. Is that worth it? I’m not sure I’d think it was worth that much, but I’m not in your shoes.
Speaking of which, I’m not sure you have a solid feel/desire to go biglaw anyway given your comment that “but the question is whether I want to work in Big Law or not.” The best thing I can say here is that’s quite a bit to pay for something that you aren’t at all sure about. Your general uncertainty would strongly suggest avoiding massive debt; that frees you up to do the greatest number of things, all at the cost of have a lessened shot at biglaw (which may not be your thing anyway).
I hope that helps. thanks and let me know what you decide, I’d love to know!"
Jim: "Hi Dave,
I have been stuck for some time now on a decision between a few NY based law schools.
I was admitted to Fordham (about 300k), which is the highest ranked school I could attend anywhere. However, I was also given full scholarships at St.Johns and Brooklyn Law, in addition to approximately a third of tuition at Cardozo (3 year total of 115k).
I will be taking out loans for the full cost of whatever school I attend, in addition to living expenses. For someone who has never been in debt before, I am pretty concerned about having that financial obligation limit my career options to only the highest paying/highest pressure jobs.
I foresee two potential undesirable scenarios with regard to either taking the money or the prestige:
1) If I take the money and run, I will obviously have to work my tail off to put myself in the same conversation as a Fordham grad, not to mention Columbia, NYU, and the other NY school grads. If I fail to place in the top 10 or 25 percent of my class, where does that leave me in terms of career options in a highly competitive job market?
2) If I attend Fordham at sticker price, I am sure I will have more connections and job advantages coming out, but the question is whether I want to work in Big Law or not. What happens if I leave Fordham after three years with 300k in debt, and don’t want to work a Big Law job? Or what if I don’t rank well in my class, and don’t even have the option to work a Big Law job that I might need to pay off that debt?
Frankly, this position is made more difficult by my not knowing what exactly what I want to do with my law degree. I’d like to work towards more than just my own bottom line in my career, and perhaps do something public interest oriented. At the same time, I have worked jobs where I am just scraping by, and it is not a fun place to be.
I understand this is a pretty subjective choice, but any additional insight or info would be really helpful."
Dave Killoran: "Hi Jim,
Thanks for the message! This is indeed another classic money vs prestige decision so let’s look at it. With question #1, that changes every year, and some years are just fine and others it’s a tough ride. There’s just no way to know in advance, so if you’re like me, I always assume it will be on the tougher side when you come out. that way, everything else is a bonus.
With #2, you have to look at the numbers: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/fordham/cardozo. employment scores are very similar, but inside those numbers you can see Fordham has advantages in hiring at national firms (biglaw!) among others. That advantage (47.7% vs 17.7%) is what costs you roughly $185K more according to your estimates. Is that worth it? I’m not sure I’d think it was worth that much, but I’m not in your shoes.
Speaking of which, I’m not sure you have a solid feel/desire to go biglaw anyway given your comment that “but the question is whether I want to work in Big Law or not.” The best thing I can say here is that’s quite a bit to pay for something that you aren’t at all sure about. Your general uncertainty would strongly suggest avoiding massive debt; that frees you up to do the greatest number of things, all at the cost of have a lessened shot at biglaw (which may not be your thing anyway).
I hope that helps. thanks and let me know what you decide, I’d love to know!"