- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 8929
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Thu Aug 10, 2023 12:50 pm
#102758
Below, PowerScore's Dave Killoran provides some law school choice advice to a student, Isaac,
Isaac: "Hi Dave,
First, thank you for providing feedback to countless others. Your advice has been incredibly helpful these past few days. I graduated in 2021, and I currently work in finance. I applied to law school hoping to continue on that route from a legal standpoint. My desire is to go into private practice, and I would like to end up in the best position to have a successful career. Naturally, I have my sights set on BigLaw, but I’m aware of the low probability of that occurring. So at the very least its my motivation to try my best to excel during my time in law school.
I’m trying to decide between two schools. 1. Santa Clara University (full-tuition) & 2. University of Maryland, Carey (sticker). Up until a few weeks ago I was committed to attending SCU, but UMD admitted me off the waitlist. UMD was the one of my top choices during my application process because the extensive list of courses/programs in various areas of law, the opportunity to intern with federal agencies tasked with financial regulation, and my desire to practice law on the east coast. Being from California, I applied to many of our local schools here, and wound up deciding on SCU because of the relatively low debt needed to graduate, and their BigLaw employment numbers were pretty competitive considering the prestigious law schools in the region.
As I researched more on Santa Clara, I came to the conclusion that their Firm/BigLaw employment numbers were skewed due to the technical backgrounds of some grads, their TechEdge program, and all the hype surrounding Tech & IP these past few years. I’m skeptical that if I attend and don’t pursue IP or Tech-adjacent coursework I may miss out on internship/employment opportunities due to the schools low ranking.
However, my concerns with UMD is that it may not carry enough weight to justify paying sticker price for an education. Though it is a better ranked program, most of the graduates tend to go towards Government, PI, or Clerkships. None fit my current career ambitions nor provide sufficient enough income to live comfortably and service the incurred debt load. Conversations with recent alumni at UMD has left me with the impression that firms do hire UMD grads, and it’s just the case that the school does not steer many students towards BigLaw and private practice. So my inclination to go to UMD comes with the pressure of having little room for error and the understanding that I will have to do a lot of heavy lifting on my own to secure that employment.
If I go to SCU I will be responsible for about $120k total ($50k from myself, $70k debt). UMD leaves me with about $270k total ($80k from myself, $190k debt). My best case scenario is that I can hopefully lower the UMD cost by about $50k my 2L & 3L year by declaring myself a resident and moving in with relatives in the area.
I don’t mind where I end up practicing, but I just want to give myself the best possible chances to end up amongst the best of my peers. Looking at the numbers, my career aspirations, personal interest, and current climate for new associates, is it wise to take the risk? Or, should I take the money and run?"
Dave: "Hi Isaac,
Thanks for the question! My initial reaction here is that paying up to $270K and not getting T14 name recognition and placement is a very steep price. That kind of debt is an albatross that is impossible to escape unless you land a job that pays well. So my first piece of advice is to run the numbers on that so you get an exact sense of the salary you MUST have to make ends meet, let alone live well.
Second, let’s look at the comparison, with the caveat that your SCU biglaw numbers explanation seems plausible to me (I hadn’t heard that before, but it would add up): https://www.lawschooltransparency.com/s ... a/maryland
You can see that Maryland has multiple numerical advantages here, starting with a substantially higher employment score to better LSAT/GPA medians and then all the way down to a far superior bar pass rate. SCU has the national firm advantage and salary advantage, but if that’s being skewed by the specialized tech/silicon valley program that would place more highly there AND pay well, it’s worth thinking carefully here. Maryland looks like it has a higher-performing student body (just based on initial numbers) and one that passes the bar (with the caveat that the CA bar is known to be tough; that said 64.6% pass rate isn’t impressive).
All in all, this comes down to Maryland costing between $100K-$150K more than SCU, and what you are really buying is job prospects. With SCU you will be in California; there is essentially low portability outside the West Coast. Maryland gives you a bit more portability and a wider location range on the East Coast. If this was MD at $35-$0K more as the difference between the two schools, I’d take Maryland, but at over $100K more? I have serious reservations even with the lower SCU numbers.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks!"
Isaac: "Hi Dave,
First, thank you for providing feedback to countless others. Your advice has been incredibly helpful these past few days. I graduated in 2021, and I currently work in finance. I applied to law school hoping to continue on that route from a legal standpoint. My desire is to go into private practice, and I would like to end up in the best position to have a successful career. Naturally, I have my sights set on BigLaw, but I’m aware of the low probability of that occurring. So at the very least its my motivation to try my best to excel during my time in law school.
I’m trying to decide between two schools. 1. Santa Clara University (full-tuition) & 2. University of Maryland, Carey (sticker). Up until a few weeks ago I was committed to attending SCU, but UMD admitted me off the waitlist. UMD was the one of my top choices during my application process because the extensive list of courses/programs in various areas of law, the opportunity to intern with federal agencies tasked with financial regulation, and my desire to practice law on the east coast. Being from California, I applied to many of our local schools here, and wound up deciding on SCU because of the relatively low debt needed to graduate, and their BigLaw employment numbers were pretty competitive considering the prestigious law schools in the region.
As I researched more on Santa Clara, I came to the conclusion that their Firm/BigLaw employment numbers were skewed due to the technical backgrounds of some grads, their TechEdge program, and all the hype surrounding Tech & IP these past few years. I’m skeptical that if I attend and don’t pursue IP or Tech-adjacent coursework I may miss out on internship/employment opportunities due to the schools low ranking.
However, my concerns with UMD is that it may not carry enough weight to justify paying sticker price for an education. Though it is a better ranked program, most of the graduates tend to go towards Government, PI, or Clerkships. None fit my current career ambitions nor provide sufficient enough income to live comfortably and service the incurred debt load. Conversations with recent alumni at UMD has left me with the impression that firms do hire UMD grads, and it’s just the case that the school does not steer many students towards BigLaw and private practice. So my inclination to go to UMD comes with the pressure of having little room for error and the understanding that I will have to do a lot of heavy lifting on my own to secure that employment.
If I go to SCU I will be responsible for about $120k total ($50k from myself, $70k debt). UMD leaves me with about $270k total ($80k from myself, $190k debt). My best case scenario is that I can hopefully lower the UMD cost by about $50k my 2L & 3L year by declaring myself a resident and moving in with relatives in the area.
I don’t mind where I end up practicing, but I just want to give myself the best possible chances to end up amongst the best of my peers. Looking at the numbers, my career aspirations, personal interest, and current climate for new associates, is it wise to take the risk? Or, should I take the money and run?"
Dave: "Hi Isaac,
Thanks for the question! My initial reaction here is that paying up to $270K and not getting T14 name recognition and placement is a very steep price. That kind of debt is an albatross that is impossible to escape unless you land a job that pays well. So my first piece of advice is to run the numbers on that so you get an exact sense of the salary you MUST have to make ends meet, let alone live well.
Second, let’s look at the comparison, with the caveat that your SCU biglaw numbers explanation seems plausible to me (I hadn’t heard that before, but it would add up): https://www.lawschooltransparency.com/s ... a/maryland
You can see that Maryland has multiple numerical advantages here, starting with a substantially higher employment score to better LSAT/GPA medians and then all the way down to a far superior bar pass rate. SCU has the national firm advantage and salary advantage, but if that’s being skewed by the specialized tech/silicon valley program that would place more highly there AND pay well, it’s worth thinking carefully here. Maryland looks like it has a higher-performing student body (just based on initial numbers) and one that passes the bar (with the caveat that the CA bar is known to be tough; that said 64.6% pass rate isn’t impressive).
All in all, this comes down to Maryland costing between $100K-$150K more than SCU, and what you are really buying is job prospects. With SCU you will be in California; there is essentially low portability outside the West Coast. Maryland gives you a bit more portability and a wider location range on the East Coast. If this was MD at $35-$0K more as the difference between the two schools, I’d take Maryland, but at over $100K more? I have serious reservations even with the lower SCU numbers.
Please let me know what you think. Thanks!"