#18 - Salesperson: When a salesperson is successful, it is

[Adam Tyson]

Instead of being a flaw in the argument, scerankosky7, answer D actually supports the argument. The author argues that anyone successful in sales has been doing it for at least three years, so if it takes some people longer than that to meet the necessary condition of a strong client base, that would help prove that someone successful has been doing it at least that long. The problem is failing to consider that it might take less time, not that it might take more time!

Don't make the mistake of thinking that the author is trying to prove that 3 years is sufficient. They are trying to prove that 3 years is necessary, when it might not be.

[ashpine17]

Is making a comfortable living in sales and success the same thing?

Is this a question you would recommend diagramming? I personally found that it didn't help much mostly because I wasn't sure whether this was a conditional flaw or not.

[Robert Carroll]

ashpine,

I do not think those concepts are the same, but there's also a Mistaken Reversal flaw in this argument. So maybe the argument has two flaws. If any answer addressed the disconnect between "successful" and "comfortable living", that would be worth consideration.

This is a Mistaken Reversal, which should be apparent upon diagramming. Further, the stimulus uses clear conditional language. So you should diagram because of the language, and the diagramming will make crystal clear that the flaw is Mistaken Reversal.

Robert Carroll

[ashpine17]

Is success and comfortable living in sales inrerchangeablw in this argument i was wondering when i read it ams thought they were

[ashpine17]

And if they are not then how am i supposed to read this argument because that is confusing i read it as similsr terms but not the same because successful can mean more than just comfortable living

[Adam Tyson]

Hey ashpine, it looks like you asked that same question about 3 years ago, and Robert answered it back then. I do think that they are pretty similar ideas, but maybe not the same idea. However, whether that's a secondary flaw or not isn't important, since none of the answers addresses that difference. The flaw that should stand out here is the conditional flaw, and a diagram would be a good idea if you didn't see that flaw at first look.

Here's one way to diagram it that would allow you to completely ignore the "comfortable living" aspect. It doesn't matter if that's the same thing as success.

Premise: Successful Strong Client Base

Premise: 3+ years Developing Strong Client Base Comfortable Living

From here, we cannot conclude that Success requires 3+ years, can we? All we can say is that it requires a strong client base. So, we can prephrase an answer that says: "a strong client base doesn't have to take 3+ years." In other words, these two conditional premises don't form a chain. The whole "comfortable living" issue becomes a nothing burger!

[Capetowner]

ashpine,

I do not think those concepts are the same, but there's also a Mistaken Reversal flaw in this argument. So maybe the argument has two flaws. If any answer addressed the disconnect between "successful" and "comfortable living", that would be worth consideration.

This is a Mistaken Reversal, which should be apparent upon diagramming. Further, the stimulus uses clear conditional language. So you should diagram because of the language, and the diagramming will make crystal clear that the flaw is Mistaken Reversal.

Robert Carroll

Does "eventually" constitute a Mistaken Reversal? Why would it if success has happened already

[Jeff Wren]

Hi Capetowner,

It isn't the word "eventually" that indicates a Mistaken Reversal. In fact, the word "eventually" is not the conditional indicator in that sentence. The conditional indicator in the final sentence in the stimulus is the word "anyone." Since "anyone who spends at least three years developing a client base" can succeed in sales (i.e. make a comfortable living), "sending at least three years developing a client base" is the sufficient condition.

To be clear, this sentence, which is a premise, does not contain the Mistaken Reversal. It is the conclusion of the argument (which is the first sentence of the stimulus) that contains the Mistaken Reversal of this premise.

This premise is basically saying, "If someone spends at least three years developing a client base, then that person can succeed in sales."

The conclusion is basically saying, "If someone succeeds in sales, then that person must have spent at least three years developing a client base."

As you can see, the conclusion reverses the sufficient and necessary condition of the premise, i.e. a Mistaken Reversal.