#12 - "Though they soon will, patients should not have a

[demk26]

Hi PS,

I understand why Answer (A) is correct - because it shows that the medical staff has to retrieve the files regardless of whether the patient asks for it. Thus, it is time-wasting and does NOT cancel out the Doctor's first reason.

Can you please confirm my rationale for Answer (E)? If some doctors had this policy all along, but no patients took advantage of this policy, it establishes the doctor's second reason (no patients asked for files), but it does cancel the doctor's first reason, because it is not time-wasting. Is that correct?

Thanks so much!

[Adam Tyson]

Confirmed! Good work!

[Areohn]

Hello,
So I recently tried this question in my drills and I just want to clarify the reasoning behind the correct answer.

I was able to eliminate B, D, & E for either being irrelevant or weakening the argument and was left with choices A & C.

I initially chose choice C because of the added time it would take to explain to patients the things that they wouldn't understand. I assumed that regardless of if they have to retrieve and produce, the explanation the patient would guarantee and increase in time. In reading the thread ( and in retrospectively considering the real world practice of archiving files), I understand that producing and retrieving may be two different things, but I honestly don't see how we are expected to come to this conclusion of the doctors possibly having to get archived records from the stimulus.

Is it because there's no guarantee that patients won't understand some of the results? Again, I feel the only way to get to choice (A) is to assume real life scenarios but aren't we not supposed to do this on the test? Even if we are, why isn't it realistic to assume that layman aren't going to have at least some questions about medical results?

[Jeremy Press]

Hi Areohn,

Let's first dispense with answer choice C. The problem with answer choice C is that the doctor's second reason says no patients are going to ask. So even though answer choice C says, "IF somebody asked, then they would ask other things too," we take the doctor's reasons (in essence , premises in this stimulus) at face value and say, "No one is going to ask." So if no one asks, there will also be no one who adds that additional question (or the extra time that would come with it if someone asked).

With answer choice A, the very structure of the answer requires us to see "producing" and "retrieving" as two different things. Because, the way the answer is worded, producing is clearly "not just" retrieving. That by itself means we need to be careful about the meaning of producing. Then the makers of the test are going to expect you to rely on the plain meaning of the term "produce," a dictionary definition of which is "to make available for public exhibition or dissemination." If the item is to be "ready to be made available" (that's the language of answer choice A, using the definition of produce), that means doctors need to have it ready to go (they have to have retrieved it, i.e. they have to have spent the time to get it ready). That's enough to make answer choice A the answer, because it means that, even if no one asks, the doctor still had to spend the time to get the document ready to go.

It's true that the LSAT doesn't require specialized outside knowledge of us, but they do often presume our familiarity with the dictionary definitions of terms (whether or not students actually know them). Definitely one of the challenges of the test, and one of the things that causes many of us instructors to recommend that students keep a running vocabulary list of terms that trip them up.

I hope this helps!

[KwakuS]

Hello,

Thank you for all the responses. Unfortunately, I'm still really confused as to the difference between A and E.

First, A states that doctors must be ready to produce the records and not just retrieve them. Does that mean that before every meeting with a patient, a doctor will have to retrieve the files to take them to the patient meeting? If the doctor is already retrieving the file before the patient meeting, I don't understand the significance of the last phrase ("not just ready to retrieve them.").

Second, E states that doctors have had this policy all along. While that would seem to make the first premise of the argument moot (since these doctors are already collecting records, so they wouldn't be changing anything) I don't see how that makes E wrong.

Thanks,
Kwaku

[Adam Tyson]

The argument essentially contradicts itself. The author first claims that it will be a big waste of time, but then says hardly any patients will ask for their records, which makes it sound like it WON'T be a big waste of time. The question asks us to fix that problem and show that patients failure to ask frequently would not contradict the claim that it would be a big waste of time. Put another way, the answer should show that doctors will have to spend a lot of time retrieving records even though very few patients ask for them.

Answer A does that by saying that the doctors will have to gather all those records for every patient in advance, whether they ask for them or not, just in case they do happen to ask. If they are gathering all those records together for every single patient, and only a few end up asking for them, then most of the time that work will have been a complete waste, supporting the author's argument and resolving the apparent contradiction.

And the bit about being ready to produce them immediately rather than just being ready to retrieve them means they will have already retrieved them before the patient arrived, as opposed to just "if they ask then I will do the work of retrieving them." It means they will do the work every time, rather than just on those few occasions when they are requested to do so.

Answer E is pretty weak, since it is only about "some" doctors. What about all the others who don't do this? Will they be wasting their time or not? Not if their patients don't ask for the records, perhaps. Thus, this does nothing to resolve the apparent contradiction in the argument.

[Hosseingold29]

Thanks but why D is not true by your approach ?

[Adam Tyson]

Because that doesn't do anything to suggest that it will be a big waste of time even if hardly anyone asks for their records, Hosseingold29. We need an answer that suggests doctors will be wasting a lot of time, taking medical staff away from other important duties, even if very few patients ask for the records. Answer D tells us that they could, if they wished, charge patients some fees for the extra work, but even if they are making more money we wouldn't know whether they would be wasting any time. The second reason - hardly anyone ever asks - still appears to cancel out the first reason, because there would be relatively little time spent in compliance with the law.

What we need is something that indicates that doctors and staff will be wasting a lot of time regardless of whether patients ask for their records or not. D doesn't imply that.