- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri May 19, 2017 1:12 pm
#35115
What follows is the transcript of a conversation between a student, Drew, and one of our Admissions gurus, Dave, regarding Drew's choice between two law schools.
Drew: "Hi, Dave! I would greatly appreciate your advice on my law school circumstances:
I am currently in the Southeastern Michigan/Detroit area, and I plan on staying in the area, as I have strong local ties. Moreover, I do NOT have lofty aspirations for after law school (no clerkships, not interested in big law, etc.). I currently have a full ride to Wayne State University Law School (ranked #100 according to US News) and a partial scholarship ($15,000) to the University of Michigan (ranked #8 according to US News). Michigan's tuition is $55,000 ($40,000 with my scholarship), and I estimate $3,000 per year for books, parking, and other expenses. And because I have a full ride at Wayne State, I estimate only $1,000-$2,000 for books and other expenses.
I received my undergraduate degree at U of M, Ann Arbor, where I was greatly intimidated and made anxious by the extremely competitive environment. However, I graduated in the top 3%, so I know I can handle it. I am also currently in debt from my time there.
I would love to hear your take on whether I should go to a Top 10 school or go to a moderately respected regional school--Wayne has the largest legal alumni base in Michigan, as only 11% of U of M Law grads stay in Michigan. Furthermore, as I understand, going to a national school (U of M) prepares you to go out of state and obtain jobs in big law areas (DC, Chicago, NY), whereas, if you attend a regional school, it might prepare you more generally for practice in the state in which you attend law school. Should I throw away a huge opportunity to attend a Top 10 school, and the probability of getting an overall better job in MI (but end up close to $180,000 in debt with interest) or attend a regional school, debt-free, with possibly no good job prospects?
Finally, if I attend U of M, I will start in summer (June), causing me to graduate in December. What are your thoughts on this as far as bar prep and jobs go? Thank you!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Drew, Thanks for the question! Well, this is more or less the quintessential question: should you go for the free ride at a lower-ranked school or go into debt for the prestige of a highly ranked name? The answer for each person is different, and as I've spoken with all the students in this comments section I've found that each person has slightly different ways that they value and analyze the elements in play. Nobody likes debt, and if you've read the other discussions you've seen me repeatedly recommend that applicants considering going into debt should look at the repayment schedules and truly understand what $150K-$250K of debt looks like on a monthly basis. It can be significant and overwhelming, but you have to face the reality of the financial consequence of choosing that path. For some students the answer is that it's too risky but for many others it's not. I know that going to the debt-free school represents a safer pathway in a financial sense, because we can see a black and white difference in the monetary obligations that those individuals bear upon graduation. But it also often represents a demonstrably lower chance of securing the so called elite jobs in big firms and clerking for judges. This is where your goals and aspirations really do play a major role. For example, do you want to be a law professor? Then your chances increase more as the rank increases at the school you attend. In your case, I don't get the biglaw/clerkship pathway as being something you have your heart set on. Will Michigan give you a better shot at any job compared to Wayne? Yeah, to be honest it will, and that goes even for those in-state jobs. Plus, so many of those Michigan grads leave the state because they can; the name gives them the clout to do so (and it also pulls in many more people form out of state than Wayne, which is also why they leave upon graduation).
I think your decision needs to be driven by your comfort with these schools. Which one do you think will make you happier? Both will be competitive--just because Wayne is ranked lower doesn't mean that there won't be pressure in class to perform or on the exams to ace them--but if you feel Wayne is more to your liking, then you get a free education at a school you like. I don't know you well enough to really contribute to this decision (I wish I did--it would be easier, right?
This decision has to be driven by deep introspection on your part about what you want out of law school and what you are willing to pay for the experience. Ask yourself how you feel about those monthly payments, and how you would feel about passing up the big name school. Talk to the people who know you best and ask their opinion. they can't decide for you, but maybe they'll help you best understand your personal values and how those relate to the costs involved here.
Please let me know if that helps, and good luck--I'd love to know what you ultimately decide!"
Drew: "Hi, Dave! I would greatly appreciate your advice on my law school circumstances:
I am currently in the Southeastern Michigan/Detroit area, and I plan on staying in the area, as I have strong local ties. Moreover, I do NOT have lofty aspirations for after law school (no clerkships, not interested in big law, etc.). I currently have a full ride to Wayne State University Law School (ranked #100 according to US News) and a partial scholarship ($15,000) to the University of Michigan (ranked #8 according to US News). Michigan's tuition is $55,000 ($40,000 with my scholarship), and I estimate $3,000 per year for books, parking, and other expenses. And because I have a full ride at Wayne State, I estimate only $1,000-$2,000 for books and other expenses.
I received my undergraduate degree at U of M, Ann Arbor, where I was greatly intimidated and made anxious by the extremely competitive environment. However, I graduated in the top 3%, so I know I can handle it. I am also currently in debt from my time there.
I would love to hear your take on whether I should go to a Top 10 school or go to a moderately respected regional school--Wayne has the largest legal alumni base in Michigan, as only 11% of U of M Law grads stay in Michigan. Furthermore, as I understand, going to a national school (U of M) prepares you to go out of state and obtain jobs in big law areas (DC, Chicago, NY), whereas, if you attend a regional school, it might prepare you more generally for practice in the state in which you attend law school. Should I throw away a huge opportunity to attend a Top 10 school, and the probability of getting an overall better job in MI (but end up close to $180,000 in debt with interest) or attend a regional school, debt-free, with possibly no good job prospects?
Finally, if I attend U of M, I will start in summer (June), causing me to graduate in December. What are your thoughts on this as far as bar prep and jobs go? Thank you!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Drew, Thanks for the question! Well, this is more or less the quintessential question: should you go for the free ride at a lower-ranked school or go into debt for the prestige of a highly ranked name? The answer for each person is different, and as I've spoken with all the students in this comments section I've found that each person has slightly different ways that they value and analyze the elements in play. Nobody likes debt, and if you've read the other discussions you've seen me repeatedly recommend that applicants considering going into debt should look at the repayment schedules and truly understand what $150K-$250K of debt looks like on a monthly basis. It can be significant and overwhelming, but you have to face the reality of the financial consequence of choosing that path. For some students the answer is that it's too risky but for many others it's not. I know that going to the debt-free school represents a safer pathway in a financial sense, because we can see a black and white difference in the monetary obligations that those individuals bear upon graduation. But it also often represents a demonstrably lower chance of securing the so called elite jobs in big firms and clerking for judges. This is where your goals and aspirations really do play a major role. For example, do you want to be a law professor? Then your chances increase more as the rank increases at the school you attend. In your case, I don't get the biglaw/clerkship pathway as being something you have your heart set on. Will Michigan give you a better shot at any job compared to Wayne? Yeah, to be honest it will, and that goes even for those in-state jobs. Plus, so many of those Michigan grads leave the state because they can; the name gives them the clout to do so (and it also pulls in many more people form out of state than Wayne, which is also why they leave upon graduation).
I think your decision needs to be driven by your comfort with these schools. Which one do you think will make you happier? Both will be competitive--just because Wayne is ranked lower doesn't mean that there won't be pressure in class to perform or on the exams to ace them--but if you feel Wayne is more to your liking, then you get a free education at a school you like. I don't know you well enough to really contribute to this decision (I wish I did--it would be easier, right?
This decision has to be driven by deep introspection on your part about what you want out of law school and what you are willing to pay for the experience. Ask yourself how you feel about those monthly payments, and how you would feel about passing up the big name school. Talk to the people who know you best and ask their opinion. they can't decide for you, but maybe they'll help you best understand your personal values and how those relate to the costs involved here. Please let me know if that helps, and good luck--I'd love to know what you ultimately decide!"