- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 03, 2020 9:57 am
#74627
Below is a conversation between accepted law school student Austin and PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran regarding Austin's law school decision.
Austin: "Hi there!
I’m trying to figure out where to go to school. I have an offer from UCLA with a 10k/yr scholarship, which doesn’t really do much financially. I’ve also heard different things about UCLA’s reputation–originally, I considered them a school with a national reach, but as of late I’m worried that I would be stuck practicing in California. I have a few other acceptances I’m considering: GW with 20k/yr scholarship, Emory with a 25k/yr scholarship, and Fordham (who has yet to send me scholarship info–but considering the other schools, I expect to get something). I would like to practice in an east coast city, whether it be D.C. or NYC or Chicago, and I would like to make enough money that this investment actually makes sense. After looking more closely at the bimodal salary curve, I worry that at any of these options, I am going to be left with massive debt and poor career prospects. Any advice? Should I keep UCLA in the running?"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Austin,
Thanks for the message. This could ultimately prove to be a tough choice for you, but at least you have options so things aren’t bad at all
A few thoughts:
UCLA is fringe national. Meaning, everyone knows the school and thinks it is solid, but outside of California there will be occasional regional preferences that outweigh the name. But, every legal hiring manager in the country knows UCLA and has some familiarity with it, which is more than GW or Emory can claim (and really Fordham too). That said, availability doesn’t get the job on its merits alone, and so can you get hired in a large market outside of CA? Yes, you can see that about 6% of their grads go to NY and 2% to DC. Small percentages but it tells you that jobs are available and sometimes it’s good to not be the 100th Fordham or GW grad they interview, if that makes sense.
The high percentage of in state CA placement (around 80%) for UCLA is a product of both the fact that many west coast based students go there and the fact that LA and SF are two big legal markets that they have access to. If you’re from the west and can interview in those cities, you probably end up in a job there. So, that’s less regional than it looks.
With what you have in terms of options, the money makes a huge difference. No school in your group has a slam dunk rep that justifies taking on large debt, and so outcomes/debt appears to rightly be your focus (congrats on that!). The Fordham offer can’t be evaluated because without the $$, there’s no baseline cost yet and thus I can’t factor them in. Between the other three, UCLA has a definite edge in employment, so I’d look at the total cost of attendance thereafter and less so on how much each school gives you. UCLA has better placement and a bigger name, and that’s worth something (how much is the question). Side note if it does come down to Fordham and UCLA: Take a close look at the Fordham placement: it’s great in NY but falls off rapidly once you get out of the northeast. A city like Chicago is a lot less likely for you with a Fordham degree (which may be worth it since the NY power is very good).
One thought: look around on Reddit or elsewhere for a UCLA grad who then worked in NY/DC, and seek them out. Most people are helpful and they can give you a first-hand info on how the process was for them.
Last point is that you are right to question the location vs debt vs career outcomes, and while I think you’ve got decent choices, if you feel the debt is too high, take a year off. I can’t see your GPA/LSAT numbers, but the surest way to change your admissions options and financial offers is to try the LSAT again and in the meantime strengthen your resume. Certainly it’s terrible to wait a year, but I just had a student apply a year ago with a similar slate of school to yours, not like her options, come back to retake the test while working in a law firm, and who will be now be going to a T6 this upcoming fall with about $120K less debt overall from what she would have taken on last year (at a lower ranked school).
Please let me know what you decide, I’d love to hear how it turns out. Thanks and good luck!"
Austin: "Hi there!
I’m trying to figure out where to go to school. I have an offer from UCLA with a 10k/yr scholarship, which doesn’t really do much financially. I’ve also heard different things about UCLA’s reputation–originally, I considered them a school with a national reach, but as of late I’m worried that I would be stuck practicing in California. I have a few other acceptances I’m considering: GW with 20k/yr scholarship, Emory with a 25k/yr scholarship, and Fordham (who has yet to send me scholarship info–but considering the other schools, I expect to get something). I would like to practice in an east coast city, whether it be D.C. or NYC or Chicago, and I would like to make enough money that this investment actually makes sense. After looking more closely at the bimodal salary curve, I worry that at any of these options, I am going to be left with massive debt and poor career prospects. Any advice? Should I keep UCLA in the running?"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Austin,
Thanks for the message. This could ultimately prove to be a tough choice for you, but at least you have options so things aren’t bad at all
A few thoughts:UCLA is fringe national. Meaning, everyone knows the school and thinks it is solid, but outside of California there will be occasional regional preferences that outweigh the name. But, every legal hiring manager in the country knows UCLA and has some familiarity with it, which is more than GW or Emory can claim (and really Fordham too). That said, availability doesn’t get the job on its merits alone, and so can you get hired in a large market outside of CA? Yes, you can see that about 6% of their grads go to NY and 2% to DC. Small percentages but it tells you that jobs are available and sometimes it’s good to not be the 100th Fordham or GW grad they interview, if that makes sense.
The high percentage of in state CA placement (around 80%) for UCLA is a product of both the fact that many west coast based students go there and the fact that LA and SF are two big legal markets that they have access to. If you’re from the west and can interview in those cities, you probably end up in a job there. So, that’s less regional than it looks.
With what you have in terms of options, the money makes a huge difference. No school in your group has a slam dunk rep that justifies taking on large debt, and so outcomes/debt appears to rightly be your focus (congrats on that!). The Fordham offer can’t be evaluated because without the $$, there’s no baseline cost yet and thus I can’t factor them in. Between the other three, UCLA has a definite edge in employment, so I’d look at the total cost of attendance thereafter and less so on how much each school gives you. UCLA has better placement and a bigger name, and that’s worth something (how much is the question). Side note if it does come down to Fordham and UCLA: Take a close look at the Fordham placement: it’s great in NY but falls off rapidly once you get out of the northeast. A city like Chicago is a lot less likely for you with a Fordham degree (which may be worth it since the NY power is very good).
One thought: look around on Reddit or elsewhere for a UCLA grad who then worked in NY/DC, and seek them out. Most people are helpful and they can give you a first-hand info on how the process was for them.
Last point is that you are right to question the location vs debt vs career outcomes, and while I think you’ve got decent choices, if you feel the debt is too high, take a year off. I can’t see your GPA/LSAT numbers, but the surest way to change your admissions options and financial offers is to try the LSAT again and in the meantime strengthen your resume. Certainly it’s terrible to wait a year, but I just had a student apply a year ago with a similar slate of school to yours, not like her options, come back to retake the test while working in a law firm, and who will be now be going to a T6 this upcoming fall with about $120K less debt overall from what she would have taken on last year (at a lower ranked school).
Please let me know what you decide, I’d love to hear how it turns out. Thanks and good luck!"