#20 - Edgar: Some of the pumps supplying water to our region

[Administrator]

Please post below with any questions!

[lll7]

Why is C wrong and B right?

Thanks

[Emily Haney-Caron]

Hi lll7,

I noticed you posted a few questions about this exam, which is great! I'm glad to see you're really working to figure out why you got questions wrong.

I want to make sure you also get the most out of this process, though, which means giving you a chance to think through the questions on your own and also making sure our answers are as tailored to you as possible. To do that, it really helps a lot if you:
1. explain how you understood the stimulus (what portions were premises? what was the conclusion?)
2. explain what you think of the logic of the argument (does the conclusion flow logically from the premises? if no, why not?)
3. tell us what type of question this is based on the question stem
4. identify what your prephrase was (if you didn't have one when you first did the question, that's okay! Now's a great time to go back and come up with one)
5. explain why you chose the answer you did and why you think it is correct now

Once you provide that info, you might find that you've answered your own question and caught your mistake. If so, great! If not, that's why we're here; post information related to each of the above five areas I've identified, and we can make sure the answer we give directly addresses the thing that tripped you up. This will allow you to get the most out of the studying process, because it will help you really think through questions thoroughly on your own (a great way to learn!) and then help us figure out how to help get you to the right answer.

I'll post this on a couple of other questions you asked about this exam, as well, so you have the list right there on each question. Once you answer with that info on each one, we'll give a detailed answer to get you back on the right track.

[15veries]

HI

So Just want to make sure...
B is correct because Edgar says "in order to protect a species of small fish" and Rafaela says "our water supply" meaning there is other purpose, not only for the fish.
C is wrong because in Edgar's argument he suggests "a species of small fish" but here it suggests "species" (plural) and thus we actually do not know about both opinions about C?
At first I did not eliminate for this reason because even in singular it could mean plural (just represent the whole using a specific sample) but just thought there is no Rafaela's opinion about C...

When they disagree, would their Premise disagree each other or will this happen too---one disagree with the other's conclusion in their premise? (so here premises disagree but in can something in conclusion vs premise disagree too?)

[Adam Tyson]

Thanks for the question, 15v. You're right on the money about what's wrong with C - it's that we have no idea what Rafaela would say about it. She never tells us one way or another about how consequential or inconsequential the small fish is. For a Point at Issue question like this one, we need evidence from the stimulus that one of the speakers would say "yes" and the other would so "no", or one says "I agree" and the other says "I disagree", etc.

It actually doesn't matter whether they disagree about premises, or conclusions, or even underlying assumptions. They can even disagree about matters that are not relevant to the main argument, some side issue. The only thing that matters in our analysis is that whatever it is, we can prove their disagreement based on the language found in the stimulus. If you are even uncertain how one or the other speaker would react to a statement, that statement cannot be the Point at Issue.

Keep up the good work, 15v!

[bli2016]

Hi, I still don't understand why C is wrong, because I thought that Rafaela mentioning that a threat to the fish species indicates a threat to the water supply meant that the fish species were in fact consequential. Am I misinterpreting the word "consequential"? Thanks.

[Adam Tyson]

Thanks for the question, bli2016! Let me see if I can help.

Inconsequential means unimportant. Do our two speakers disagree that small fish are unimportant? Well, Edgar seems to think that this particular species of fish is unimportant. What does Rafaela think? I don't know. Her argument isn't based on the importance of the fish, but on the importance of what they signify. They are the canaries in the coal mine - harm to them is an important indicator of a greater harm. We aren't concerned so much with the well being of the canaries, but of what their falling silent means for us. In this case, maybe the threat to the fish is an indicator of high levels of some toxin in the water?

Also, looking at answer C, does Edgar think ALL species of small fish are inconsequential? Again, I don't know. I can't be sure that he would agree with that statement, just as I can't be sure that Rafaela would disagree with it. I only know that they disagree about the importance of what this species indicates in this instance. Edgar seems to think it's just about the endangered fish, while Rafaela thinks it's about a larger danger to the water supply. That's what makes B a much better answer. In response to B, Edgar would say "yes" and Rafaela would say "no", and that's the test for any Point at Issue question. Since we don't know what either speaker would say in response to C, it's out!

I hope that cleared it up a bit. Good luck!

[lemonade42]

Hello,
I initially didn't choose B because I didn't think that Edgar would think the fish survival is the only reason for shutting off the water. It seemed like he was just saying that the water is being shut off in order to protect the fish (and that may just be one of the reasons, and not specifically stated as the only reason). How do we know that he thinks it's the only reason. I try to take caution when dealing with answers with "only"...

[Dana D]

Hey lemonade,

Edgar states that the pumps were shut down in order to protect fish, and that shutting down pumps for the fish is inconsequential. Because Edgar literally says they shut down the pumps to protect fish and sites no other reason, we can assume that is the only reason he believes the pumps were shut down.

Hope that helps!