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#41417
Please post your questions below!
 lathlee
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#46175
Hi. I thought E) was the better answer choice than b) considering that assumption questions, usually, avoid the strongly worded answer choices are better off. I don't understand why E) is incorrect over b)
 BostonLawGuy
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#57762
Hi Lathlee,

I note that you have not received a response, so I thought I would offer my take on this.

Conclusion: Doctors should be prepared to discuss yoga with patients.
Premises: If an activity significantly reduces lower back pain, doctors should discuss with patients
Premies: Yoga decreases lower back pain just as much as stretching with a PT

It must be true, if the argument is valid that stretching with a PT significantly reduces lower back pain.

Try the negation test: Stretching with a PT does not significantly lower back pain. (Exaggerating it makes it more obvious: stretching with a PT doesn't help at all, sometimes it actually makes it worse!)

If the author is equating yoga with stretching and implying that yoga significantly reduces lower back pain, then stretching has to significantly reduce lower back pain. Otherwise the author could be comparing yoga to something that is not effective at all. Kinda like me saying that I'm just as smart as that nit-wit. LOL. Can't really say I am "significantly smart" if I'm comparing myself to a dumb-ass!

Which of the two statements demonstrates that I am "strong?" I can lift just as much weight as that superhero! OR: I can lift just as much weight as that 10 year-old child.

Interestingly, this same reasoning was used in test 37 Sec. 2 Q 19. Take a look at that one.
 Adam Tyson
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#60851
Good analysis, Boston, and thanks for the hand!

The problem with E is based on a Mistaken Reversal. To paraphrase a bit, if a treatment is effective, doctors should talk about it. Answer E relies on a reversal of that claim - if doctors talk about it, it is effective. Doctors talking about stretching doesn't mean stretching is effective, and yoga being just as good as something that may not be effective doesn't mean that doctors should talk about yoga. We need to know that yoga is effective, and we get there by proving that stretching is effective (since yoga is just as effective).
 kristinajohnson@berkeley.edu
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#114253
If an activity significantly reduces chronic lower back pain, doctors should be prepared to discuss the merits of that activity with patients who ask about it. A recent study compared practicing yoga to taking stretching classes with a physical therapist and found that both activities lead to equal reductions in chronic lower back pain. Thus, doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain should be prepared to discuss the merits of yoga.

Activity reduces lower back pain -> doctors discuss

Yoga = stretching

Doctors discuss -> yoga

MISSING Yoga and stretching REDUCES LOWER BACK PAIN

The conclusion and (E) look the same? I don’t see how (E) is a mistaken reversal?

Conclusion: doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain should be prepared to discuss the merits of yoga.

Doctors discuss -> yoga

(E) Many doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain discuss with their patients the merits of taking stretching classes with a physical therapist.

Doctors discuss -> stretching

(B) Taking stretching classes with a physical therapist significantly reduces chronic lower back pain.

Stretching = Activity reduces lower back pain

Activity reduces lower back pain -> doctors discuss -> yoga = stretching

So, is this correct because it allows the sufficient condition to be properly drawn? Or simply because it provides the missing piece of information, or both?

Also, using the assumption negation techniques on (E) “Many doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain DO NOT discuss with their patients the merits of taking stretching classes with a physical therapist.”

NOT Doctors discuss -> stretching

NOT stretching -> Doctors discuss

(E) looks like Doctors don’t discuss stretching so they don’t discuss yoga and that would mean that both stretching and yoga are bad so that would weaken the argument and therefore be the correct answer??? Also, I know I’m supposed to negate the necessary condition which is the opposite of what I just did but that doesn’t look right because DO NOT is in front of discuss! I’m so confused by this question.

Doctors discuss -> NOT stretching

stretching -> NOT Doctors discuss

Activity reduces lower back pain -> doctors discuss

NOT doctors discuss -> NOT Activity reduces lower back pain

???Help???
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 Jeff Wren
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#121828
Hi kristina,

I think that you may be making this question more difficult than it is, likely due to diagramming sentences that are not conditional as if they were conditional.

To simplify the argument, let's imagine that the second premise wasn't there.

We'd have:

Premise: If an activity significantly reduces chronic lower back pain, doctors should be prepared to discuss the merits of that activity with patients who ask about it.

Conclusion: Thus, doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain should be prepared to discuss the merits of yoga.

If this were the argument, it should hopefully be fairly straightforward that the missing premise (i.e. the assumption) is that yoga significantly reduces chronic lower back pain. If that statement were added to the argument, it would link the new information in the conclusion (yoga) back to the premise. Since the sufficient condition would apply to the term "yoga," that would mean that the necessary term would also apply to "yoga."

Of course, to complicate the reasoning a bit, the argument does include a second premise that yoga is similar to stretching with a physical therapist in terms of reducing chronic lower back pain. Unfortunately, this premise is useless in supporting the conclusion unless we also know that stretching with a physical therapist significantly reduces chronic lower back pain. It is not enough that these activities may reduce chronic lower back pain a bit; they need to significantly reduce chronic lower back pain in order to trigger our conditional premise and allow us to properly draw the conclusion. Answer B, which is a Supporter assumption, provides this missing information and closes the logical gap in the argument.

(Incidentally, even though this question is an Assumption question rather than a Justify question, often in arguments containing conditional reasoning like this one, the correct answer is both necessary for the argument and sufficient to justify it.)

As for Answer E, this answer is not conditional, so I would not recommend that you diagram it. More information on when to diagram conditional statements, including avoiding trying to diagram everything as a conditional statements, in "The Logical Reasoning Bible."

There are several problems/red flags with Answer E. First, the stimulus states what "doctors should be prepared to discuss" (my emphasis) while this answer describes what many doctors do discuss. These are not identical/synonymous, and that alone is a reason to eliminate this answer. In any argument about what doctors should do, statements about what doctors actually do will usually be irrelevant. Second, this answer refers to "many doctors." The word "many" is a vague word on the LSAT and often appears in wrong answers, so be wary of choosing answers with this word. The test makers know that test takers often confuse the word "many" with the word "most" even though they are not the same.

If you negated Answer E, the negation would be: "Not many (i.e. few) doctors treating patients with chronic lower back pain discuss with their patients the merits of taking stretching classes with a physical therapist."

As discussed, this does not weaken the argument because what doctors actually do has no effect on what doctors should do. For example, the fact that many people actually eat a lot of junk food has no effect on whether people should eat a lot of junk food.

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