GPA and Admissions

[mattm]

Hello,

I had GPA related question in general for T14 schools admissions.....would there be a material difference If I applied to law school with a 3.57 GPA or a 3.64 GPA from a competitive 4 year Tier 1 university? ( my PT average on LSAT is 168-172, in this hypothetical, assume i would have the exact same LSAT for in both GPA scenarios and my test day score would fall into that 168-172 range)

In both cases I would be applying for Fall 2016 law school admissions not 2015

I am excited for a May 2015 graduation and crossing the graduation stage...but I wonder if it would be better to add a minor and graduate in Dec 2015 instead ( the minor would be something I am interested in and enjoy and not just simply to boost GPA)

In the graduation Dec 2015 scenario, i would have my courses spread out so my LSAT prep would not be impacted much, and even while taking courses I could still get some work experience as the courses in the minor would be online so I would have flexibility in time as well. Finances would not be an issue either in affording the minor

I don't want my excitement of finally being able to cross the graduation stage possibly in May lead me into making the wrong choice

I think maybe getting that last little bit out of my GPA and getting into that 3.6 bracket could be the difference between a waitlist and acceptance letter for a great T14 school

Thanks!

[Dave Killoran]

Hi Matt,

Let's look at LSAC's "UGPA and LSAT Score Search" (https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/ ... ALSAT.aspx) for some answers.

With a 170 and a 3.57, these are some admissions chances:

• Berkeley: between 16-26%
  Duke: between 18-28%
  Harvard: between 2-12%
  Michigan: between 29-41%
  NYU: between 38-52%
  Northwestern: between 40-51%
  Virginia: between 18-28%

Now, let's change the GPA to 3.64 and see what happens:

• Berkeley: between 22-32% = +6% change
  Duke: between 20-30% = +2% change
  Harvard: between 5-15% = +3% change
  Michigan: between 32-44% = +3% change
  NYU: between 45-58% = +7/6% change
  Northwestern: between 42-54% = +2/3% change
  Virginia: between 20-30% = +2% change

So, about a 3% boost on average. Is that enough to justify an extra semester? I'd usually say no, but it depends on a lot of factors, most of which are personal to you.

Just for kicks, I input 3.57 and a 172, and here are the results:

• Berkeley: between 24-34% = +8% change
  Duke: between 24-34% = +6% change
  Harvard: between 6-16% = +4% change
  Michigan: between 37-49% = +8% change
  NYU: between 57-70% = +19/18% change
  Northwestern: between 50-63% = +10/12% change
  Virginia: between 22-32% = +4% change

This might help crystallize how GPA and LSAT are evaluated in the admission process: you'd be a lot better off at some of these schools by getting those extra two points than the boost in GPA.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

[Nikki Siclunov]

Hi Matt,

Let me add my 2c here. As I suspected (and Dave's data backs that up), such a small increase in your GPA will not translate in a significant increase of your chances of admission, if at all. I would not delay my graduation date by a full semester just to get that extra bump in my GPA. However, as you said, the minor is something you're interested in and would enjoy pursuing. So, I suppose the better question is: why wouldn't you do it?

The only reason you state for not pursuing the minor is psychological: crossing that graduation threshold in May, rather than December. Perhaps a more important factor would be the opportunity cost of pursuing the minor, i.e. what else would you be doing between May 2015 and the Fall of 2016 if you weren't in school? Do you have an internship or a full-time job lined up? Perhaps you'd rather teach English abroad, or build homeless shelters in Bangladesh? There is nothing wrong with bumping around the slopes in Vail either. Basically, that one year between college and law school is perhaps your last chance to do something totally unique and/or fun, without long-term consequences to your career. At best, it will also be something you can talk about in your personal statement.

So, the question isn't whether a slight boost in your GPA is worth the extra semester in school. The question is whether you have anything else lined up that is even more challenging, exciting, or life-altering. Don't get me wrong: there is nothing wrong with staying in school. Just don't do it for the wrong reasons.

Best,

[mattm]

Hello,

Since I made a pretty recent decision to postpone law school for at least one cycle, I have nothing lined up yet after graduation and plan to start searching.

The primary reason I pushed back law school was by getting a 154 on the official June 2014 LSAT and the wide disparity between that and my recent PT scores made it obvious I should retake for both admissions and scholarships. I decided a 170 (+ or -2 points) LSAT score would be better served in Fall 2016 instead of taking the Feb LSAT. The difference between a 1554 and a 170 is often either paying full tuition/ or denied vs a near to full ride at X University.

in my case, I do not see getting a second minor and doing something fulfilling such as traveling or getting work experience, volunteer work as mutually exclusive as the format of the classes would be online so I would not have to be in the same area as my college. I am only 9 credit hours away so I could spread out the coursework so I can do these activities. The online flexibility is the main reason why I may take the opportunity, even if I did enjoy the minor, I would probably lean towards graduation to have more flexibility in other areas if the minor was in a traditional lecture format

[Humstudents]

Hi Matt,

Let's look at LSAC's "UGPA and LSAT Score Search" (https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/ ... ALSAT.aspx) for some answers.

With a 170 and a 3.57, these are some admissions chances:

• Berkeley: between 16-26%
  Duke: between 18-28%
  Harvard: between 2-12%
  Michigan: between 29-41%
  NYU: between 38-52%
  Northwestern: between 40-51%
  Virginia: between 18-28%

Now, let's change the GPA to 3.64 and see what happens:

• Berkeley: between 22-32% = +6% change
  Duke: between 20-30% = +2% change
  Harvard: between 5-15% = +3% change
  Michigan: between 32-44% = +3% change
  NYU: between 45-58% = +7/6% change
  Northwestern: between 42-54% = +2/3% change
  Virginia: between 20-30% = +2% change

So, about a 3% boost on average. Is that enough to justify an extra semester? I'd usually say no, but it depends on a lot of factors, most of which are personal to you.

Just for kicks, I input 3.57 and a 172, and here are the results:

• Berkeley: between 24-34% = +8% change
  Duke: between 24-34% = +6% change
  Harvard: between 6-16% = +4% change
  Michigan: between 37-49% = +8% change
  NYU: between 57-70% = +19/18% change
  Northwestern: between 50-63% = +10/12% change
  Virginia: between 22-32% = +4% change

This might help crystallize how GPA and LSAT are evaluated in the admission process: you'd be a lot better off at some of these schools by getting those extra two points than the boost in GPA.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

This is so detailed and awesome post.Such a nice and beautiful reply.Thanks for the useful post.

[moshei24]

Hello,

Since I made a pretty recent decision to postpone law school for at least one cycle, I have nothing lined up yet after graduation and plan to start searching.

The primary reason I pushed back law school was by getting a 154 on the official June 2014 LSAT and the wide disparity between that and my recent PT scores made it obvious I should retake for both admissions and scholarships. I decided a 170 (+ or -2 points) LSAT score would be better served in Fall 2016 instead of taking the Feb LSAT. The difference between a 1554 and a 170 is often either paying full tuition/ or denied vs a near to full ride at X University.

in my case, I do not see getting a second minor and doing something fulfilling such as traveling or getting work experience, volunteer work as mutually exclusive as the format of the classes would be online so I would not have to be in the same area as my college. I am only 9 credit hours away so I could spread out the coursework so I can do these activities. The online flexibility is the main reason why I may take the opportunity, even if I did enjoy the minor, I would probably lean towards graduation to have more flexibility in other areas if the minor was in a traditional lecture format

I had similar numbers when I applied to law school (your goal LSAT score, I mean), and similar GPA. Feel free to message me for my input.