- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Sat Apr 22, 2017 9:29 am
#34286
What follows is the transcript of a conversation between a student, Melissa, and one of our Admissions gurus, Dave, regarding Melissa's choice between two law schools.
Melissa: "Hi Dave, Like many people, I have a difficult decision to make. The two options I'm considering are Vanderbilt and University of Michigan. At Vanderbilt, I have a scholarship of $27k/year, and at Michigan, I have a $20k/year scholarship. Both schools have similar tuition costs (Vanderbilt =$54k, Michigan =$58k). I don't have a preference for where I will end up or what law I want to practice at this point; my priority is getting a job that I like (and that helps me pay off my debt!). I'd love to attend Michigan, but I'm a bit hesitant to take the debt on--I can't quite figure out if the extra debt is worth it when the scholarship difference is $7k/year ($21k total) with Michigan tuition costing $4k more than Vanderbilt per year ($12k total). What insight can you give me that will put this into perspective? Thanks!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Melissa, Thanks for the message! First off, while this may be a difficult choice, the nice thing is that you have two excellent options to select from, and so I don't think you can make a bad decision here
If we break down the numbers (excluding cost of living for now), then what you have told me so far reduces to the following:
Vanderbilt: $54K a year - $27K scholarship = $27K/year = $81K over three years
Michigan: $58K a year - $20K scholarship = $38K/year = $114K over three years
So, as you clearly saw, those apparently small differences added up to a final $33K difference in tuition costs! Now, if we stop right there it looks like Vanderbilt has a significant edge. But Michigan is in Ann Arbor, a relatively small town, and Vanderbilt is in Nashville, a larger city (and an awesome one too, in case you've never been there). That makes a difference since the Cost of Living (COL) in Ann Arbor is generally less than Nashville. According to LST, it's the following (includes books and living expenses):
Nashville, TN Cost of Living: $24,910/yr = $74,730 total
Ann Arbor, MI Cost of Living: $19,010/yr = $57,030 total
That difference favors Ann Arbor by about $17.7K, and makes the final debt totals closer:
Vanderbilt: Tuition $81K + COL $74,730 = $155,730
Michigan: Tuition $114K + COL $57,030 = $171,030
Thus, when COL is added in, the gap narrows to $15,300. That's still significant, but much closer than before.
Ok, now that we have a firm grasp of the numbers, the first consideration is for you to go look at some debt calculators (which you may have done, but I'll repeat the advice here for the benefit of others). Check out:
Michigan Law Debt Wiz Calculator: https://www.law.umich.edu/financialaid/ ... lator.aspx (which is extremely convenient since Michigan is one of the choices here)
Washington Post Student Loan Debt Calculator: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... alculator/
Next, let's look at the job outcomes at both schools to see if the extra $15.3K might be justifiable:
*Vanderbilt*
US News Ranking: 17
ATL Ranking: 14
Employment Score: 78.9%
Under-employment Score: 13.5%
Large Firm: 37.3%
Small Firm: 4.3%
Federal Clerkship: 9.7%
Public Service: 11.9%
*Michigan*
US News Ranking: 8
ATL Ranking: 13
Employment Score: 85.0%
Under-employment Score: 10.5%
Large Firm: 50.8%
Small Firm: 1.4%
Federal Clerkship: 10.2%
Public Service: 12.7%
So, are those numbers enough to justify a slightly higher price tag? I think so. Overall employment results are better, especially at the more desirable large firm and clerkship jobs. Toss in some smaller but useful considerations (such as bar passage: Vandy 85.7% vs Michigan 93.7%) and I feel like there is a reasonable argument for thinking that Michigan is worth the extra $15.3K. That said, something you mentioned in your initial message also makes me feel that the extra money is warranted, mainly your comment that, "I'd love to attend Michigan." So, that's the school you want to go to, and since the costs are so close and the job outcomes are a bit better, I see no reason for you not to go ahead with it. If it is indeed the environment where you will be happiest, then that has an economic value since happy students typically perform better overall than unhappy or less happy students.
So, to make a long story short, I think you have all the evidence and justification you need to support your desire to go to Michigan
Please let me know what you decide to do--I'd love to know. Thanks!"
Melissa: "Hi Dave, Like many people, I have a difficult decision to make. The two options I'm considering are Vanderbilt and University of Michigan. At Vanderbilt, I have a scholarship of $27k/year, and at Michigan, I have a $20k/year scholarship. Both schools have similar tuition costs (Vanderbilt =$54k, Michigan =$58k). I don't have a preference for where I will end up or what law I want to practice at this point; my priority is getting a job that I like (and that helps me pay off my debt!). I'd love to attend Michigan, but I'm a bit hesitant to take the debt on--I can't quite figure out if the extra debt is worth it when the scholarship difference is $7k/year ($21k total) with Michigan tuition costing $4k more than Vanderbilt per year ($12k total). What insight can you give me that will put this into perspective? Thanks!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Melissa, Thanks for the message! First off, while this may be a difficult choice, the nice thing is that you have two excellent options to select from, and so I don't think you can make a bad decision here
If we break down the numbers (excluding cost of living for now), then what you have told me so far reduces to the following:
Vanderbilt: $54K a year - $27K scholarship = $27K/year = $81K over three years
Michigan: $58K a year - $20K scholarship = $38K/year = $114K over three years
So, as you clearly saw, those apparently small differences added up to a final $33K difference in tuition costs! Now, if we stop right there it looks like Vanderbilt has a significant edge. But Michigan is in Ann Arbor, a relatively small town, and Vanderbilt is in Nashville, a larger city (and an awesome one too, in case you've never been there). That makes a difference since the Cost of Living (COL) in Ann Arbor is generally less than Nashville. According to LST, it's the following (includes books and living expenses):
Nashville, TN Cost of Living: $24,910/yr = $74,730 total
Ann Arbor, MI Cost of Living: $19,010/yr = $57,030 total
That difference favors Ann Arbor by about $17.7K, and makes the final debt totals closer:
Vanderbilt: Tuition $81K + COL $74,730 = $155,730
Michigan: Tuition $114K + COL $57,030 = $171,030
Thus, when COL is added in, the gap narrows to $15,300. That's still significant, but much closer than before.
Ok, now that we have a firm grasp of the numbers, the first consideration is for you to go look at some debt calculators (which you may have done, but I'll repeat the advice here for the benefit of others). Check out:
Michigan Law Debt Wiz Calculator: https://www.law.umich.edu/financialaid/ ... lator.aspx (which is extremely convenient since Michigan is one of the choices here)
Washington Post Student Loan Debt Calculator: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... alculator/
Next, let's look at the job outcomes at both schools to see if the extra $15.3K might be justifiable:
*Vanderbilt*
US News Ranking: 17
ATL Ranking: 14
Employment Score: 78.9%
Under-employment Score: 13.5%
Large Firm: 37.3%
Small Firm: 4.3%
Federal Clerkship: 9.7%
Public Service: 11.9%
*Michigan*
US News Ranking: 8
ATL Ranking: 13
Employment Score: 85.0%
Under-employment Score: 10.5%
Large Firm: 50.8%
Small Firm: 1.4%
Federal Clerkship: 10.2%
Public Service: 12.7%
So, are those numbers enough to justify a slightly higher price tag? I think so. Overall employment results are better, especially at the more desirable large firm and clerkship jobs. Toss in some smaller but useful considerations (such as bar passage: Vandy 85.7% vs Michigan 93.7%) and I feel like there is a reasonable argument for thinking that Michigan is worth the extra $15.3K. That said, something you mentioned in your initial message also makes me feel that the extra money is warranted, mainly your comment that, "I'd love to attend Michigan." So, that's the school you want to go to, and since the costs are so close and the job outcomes are a bit better, I see no reason for you not to go ahead with it. If it is indeed the environment where you will be happiest, then that has an economic value since happy students typically perform better overall than unhappy or less happy students.
So, to make a long story short, I think you have all the evidence and justification you need to support your desire to go to Michigan
Please let me know what you decide to do--I'd love to know. Thanks!"