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#37046
Please post below with any questions!
 Kristintrapp
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#37484
I am having a hard time understanding why D. is correct because I understand that sentence to be an implication of position, not a consequence.

The passage states that that position is unsustainable, and goes on to say that if that position was upheld, it would mean/imply that what people did years ago still matters. In my mind, that isn't a consequence, but rather an underlying implication in that position.

I'm just generally having a hard time with this question. It would be helpful if you could talk about why D. is correct and why E. is incorrect.
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 Jonathan Evans
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#37531
Hi, Kristin,

Good question! The difficulty here seems to hinge on the distinction between the terms "consequence" and "implication."

In fact, both these terms share a synonymous meaning in logic and argumentation.

In argumentation, a "consequence" is a "a conclusion derived through logic."

Likewise, the formal meaning of "implication" is "the relation between two propositions in a sentence or statement such that the sentence or statement is only true when both propositions are true, or, if the first proposition is true the second proposition must be true." Notice this is a rather verbose definition of a "conclusion derived through logic"!

Thus, for the purpose of this problem, "implication" and "consequence" are synonymous!

Let's proceed to your questions about (D) and (E). To begin, let's start with a descriptive analysis of this argument to use for a prephrase:
  • P1: The position that punishment should be increased for repeat offenders (RO) implies that considerations of past behavior should be relevant to assigning punishment (BR).
  • P2: If these considerations of past behavior were relevant to assigning punishment (BR), then almost all considerations would be relevant (AR).
  • P3: If almost all considerations were relevant (AR), it would be impossible to apply the principle that punishment should be proportional to the offense (PP).
  • Conclusion: The position that punishment should both be proportional (PP) to the offense seriousness (OS) and also increased for repeat offenders (RO) is not sound.
Symbolically:
  • P1: RO :arrow: BR
  • P2: BR :arrow: AR
  • P3: AR :arrow: PP
  • Conclusion: ¬(PP :arrow: OS & RO)
Notice here that the statement in question, P2 (BR :arrow: AR, "If these considerations of past behavior were relevant to assigning punishment (BR), then almost all considerations would be relevant (AR)."), follows from P1 (RO :arrow: BR), and notice that P1 (RO :arrow: BR) follows from the view rejected in the conclusion (PP :arrow: OS & RO).

Thus, answer choice (D) is a good match for the structure of the argument.

Note that answer choice (E) describes this statement as a premise for an intermediate conclusion. It is a premise in the sense that it is a consideration that offers support against a certain position, but the support it offers against this position stems from the fact that the idea articulated in the premise creates a contradiction. Thus, there is not in fact an "intermediate conclusion," and (E) does not accurately match the structure of the argument.

I apologize if I have gone into too much detail, but I wanted at least to illustrate the structure here adequately so that we can be on the same page. I hope this helps! Thank you for the question!
 canoe
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#39536
Jonathan Evans wrote: Note that answer choice (E) describes this statement as a premise for an intermediate conclusion. It is a premise in the sense that it is a consideration that offers support against a certain position, but the support it offers against this position stems from the fact that the idea articulated in the premise creates a contradiction. Thus, there is not in fact an "intermediate conclusion," and (E) does not accurately match the structure of the argument.

I apologize if I have gone into too much detail, but I wanted at least to illustrate the structure here adequately so that we can be on the same page. I hope this helps! Thank you for the question!
I don't understand your explanation why there is no intermediate conclusion.

The definition of an intermediate conclusion is any premise, that is supported by another premise, that supports the conclusion.

Here we have, BR -> AR -> ~PP -> Main Conclusion.

Although AR and ~PP are premises, since they are each supported by another premise, wouldn't they be intermediate conclusions?

Really trying to wrap my head around this but not working : /
 James Finch
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#39675
Hi Canoe,

Intermediate conclusions that appear on the LSAT use indicator words, like thus or therefore, to indicate their status as conclusions. Instead, what we have here is a set of conditional statements that the stimulus chains together to reach the conclusion, that the view in the stimulus is unsustainable. In terms of Method and Method-Argument Part questions, conditional statements, or necessary conditions, are not conclusions--we need certainty in a conclusion, not what would be true if another thing is true.

I hope this clears things up!
 abrown
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#41738
Can someone simplify how the statement is an allegedly untenable consequence (D) and not E. thanks
 nicholaspavic
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#41829
Hi abrown,

Johnathan and James have already explained in this thread why Answer Option (E) is incorrect. Is there a specific objection that you have to their explanations? I cannot really guess at what you may be struggling with about E otherwise?

For Answer Choice (D), I think maybe you are struggling with the word untenable? Others may struggle with it too, but note untenable is really just summarizing the conclusion about impossibility here.

If you can let us know why you are certain (E) is correct and that we were wrong, I am happy to try to address the argument, so let us know! :-D
 LustingFor!L
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#41918
Reading the explanation for why E isn't correct, can someone elaborate on the statement that in Method/Method AP questions there won't be conditional statements or necessary conditions as a conclusion? I've never noticed that before/thought of this idea before, and just want to make sure I understand it completely. Just as an intermediary conclusion or any conclusion?
 Jon Denning
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#42369
Let me jump in here to see if I can clear up a number of points of confusion listed above. Namely:

..... (1) Why is D right and E wrong?

..... (2) How do intermediate conclusions work (including how to recognize them)?

..... (3) Can/will conditional reasoning be present in Method/Method—AP questions?

What follows, I hope, is a satisfactory breakdown of each. If so, I'll remove some of the official explanation posts earlier in this thread, and let this single reply serve as substitute.

So, first, to the question itself. Let me break down the component pieces of the stimulus—without diagrams!, as I genuinely believe they do more harm than good here (both as solution and explanation strategies)—by simply seeing how the various pieces relate to one another in building this argument. Then we can talk about the answer choices.

The stimulus begins with the conclusion: making punishment proportional to the seriousness of the offense while also punishing repeat offenders more harshly than first-time offenders is an unsustainable position. How do I know that's the conclusion? Because everything else in the stimulus is given in an attempt to support it! That is, the rest of what we're told here is stated with the intent of proving that first sentence true.

And, not to over-simplify an admittedly challenging idea (finding conclusions in complex stimuli), that's all there is to it. Seriously. If you can look at each piece of an argument and see that one piece is the reason for all the rest, is what the remaining content is there to bolster, then you have your conclusion. And with any argument-based stimulus on this test, that's ALWAYS Step One! Find your conclusion, then see how the other pieces fit together to support it.

The supporting pieces we have here are as follows:

..... Sentence 2: a consequence (an "implication") of the position in question, namely that old offenses are
..... relevant to a new offense's seriousness

..... Sentence 3: what that implication would mean, namely that if old offenses are relevant, most other
..... considerations would be too

..... Sentence 4: why that's a problem, namely you could never apply the original proportionality principle,
..... because it would become too difficult to determine the seriousness of an offense in the first place

So you can see the architecture of this thing:

..... A certain behavior/belief has implications/consequences, those implications carry further consequences,
..... and those consequences make the original behavior impossible to act on or follow

Now, to (D) and (E). We're asked for the role of Sentence 2:

Answer choice (D) says "an allegedly untenable consequence of a view rejected in the argument's overall conclusion." Let's parse that out, piece by piece:

..... "an alleged consequence" is the "implication" idea, where the author alleges/believes that punishing
..... repeat offenders more harshly implies that old offenses are relevant to the seriousness of a new offense.
..... That's the consequence of the belief in the conclusion, that someone would also believe Sentence 2.

..... "an untenable consequence" holds because Sentence 2 triggers the chain that leads, eventually, to the
..... final sentence where the author explains what's wrong with treating old offenses as relevant when
..... judging new ones: it's a self-defeating position. "Unsustainable" in the author's words (Sentence 1).

..... "of a view rejected in the argument's overall conclusion" is precisely what we see: in the Sentence 1
..... conclusion the author rejects the view that repeat offenders (old offenses) should receive more
..... serious punishment than first-timers

So we have a perfect match!

Answer choice (E), on the other hand, describes Sentence 2 as "a premise offered in support of an intermediate conclusion." So two things we need to verify: is it a premise, and does it support an intermediate conclusion?

The answer to the first part, is it a premise?, is—in my view—arguably "yes." "Premise" is a broad enough category to include Sentence 2: just about anything that's relevant to the conclusion and given in an attempt to support it is a premise.

But what about the intermediate conclusion? Here's where (E) falls apart. There is no intermediate conclusion based on Sentence 2 in this stimulus. (I'd go one further and say, simply, that there is no intermediate conclusion at all)


And since that leads directly to Point (2) up top, let's transition to a discussion of what intermediate conclusions are and how they work!


An intermediate, sometimes called subsidiary, conclusion is one where a basic premise/fact is used to establish a belief or argument from the author, that is then used to build the bigger (main) argument. So you need to see two statements of belief, rather than a single belief accompanied by pure facts elsewhere.

And it's that latter form—one opinion, three statements of fact—that this stimulus contains. "This position is unsustainable." Why do you think so? "These three truths: all offenses would be seen as relevant, meaning nearly all considerations period become relevant, meaning determining the seriousness of offenses becomes impossible and your original position implodes." That's a fairly standard argument form, with a series of connected facts leading to a final, and in this case reasonable, opinion.

But it isn't a case of an intermediate conclusion, because the author never presents any lower-tier beliefs from those facts en route to the main idea! That's also why you typically (NOT ALWAYS) see conclusion-indicator words like "thus" and "therefore" prefacing sub-conclusions, as they make it more apparent that the author is having an opinion-based moment. They're also great distractors by the test makers, drawing your attention away from the main point to an intermediate belief underneath it! So always make sure you're relying on more than just a word clue in determining what the main conclusion is :)

Note too that that's not the same thing as premises that merely connect to one another! Nearly every stimulus on this test—including, notably, conditional-ish ones like this—will have premise connections, while intermediate conclusions are fairly rare. The distinction, again, comes from an author using a premise to form an opinion, which is then used (often with another premise) to form an additional opinion as the main idea. I realize that sounds subtle and perhaps even arbitrary, but if you study Method of Reasoning and Main Point questions where subsidiary conclusions most frequently occur, their presence (and absence) will grow a great deal more obvious.


Finally, there's a question in this thread about conditional reasoning in Method-type questions, so I'll take a quick second to clarify that. Clearly, conditional reasoning can appear anywhere—premise, conclusion, counter-premise, intermediate conclusion, answser choices...even question stems—on the LSAT, and in virtually any question type, including Method of Reasoning. So I want to be crystal clear that conditional reasoning can most assuredly occur in conclusions for Method/Method—AP questions! What you'll typically find is that the conditionality is given as a believed outcome of the premises, like this:

..... Prem 1: A :arrow: B
..... Prem 2: B :arrow: C
..... Conclusion: A :arrow: C

Obviously that's a simplified construction, but it shows clearly enough how an "if...then" idea could be given as a conclusion based on surrounding, supporting truths. It's not as common in Method as it is in Parallel, Must, Justify, and a few other question types, but it definitely occurs. So be mindful of that.


I know that's a lot to process, but hopefully it does the trick when it comes to the questions I've seen asked! By all means though let me know if there's any lingering confusion and we can give it another look :)
 wrjackson1
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#44759
Hi, thanks for your explanation. Are there any questions from other PTs you can think of that show the intermediate conclusion? your explanation made sense, but I want to familiarize myself more with the idea.

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