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 Administrator
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#31818
Please post below with any questions!
 srcline@noctrl.edu
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#35665
Hello,

So I wanted to make sure my setup was correct for this game, b/c it was a bit difficult.

J K L M O (m is the random) We dont know the numerical distribution of the G and R teams

G L Rules:
JO not block
K :arrow: not a Facilitator
O :arrow: not a facilitator

L_

I wanted to know if I was missing any inferences here. Is it an unwarranted assumption that J Could be a facilitator since J and O cant be on the same team and O is already not a facilitator? So that leaves M could also be a facilitator?


Thankyou
Sarah
 mohtadi
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#35873
Hi Sarah,

Olga IS a facilitator - you must have misread the rules. If you try doing the game now with this correction it should be much easier :)
 Adam Tyson
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#36065
Thanks for the assist, mohtadi! Sarah, J can definitely be a facilitator on one team with O being the facilitator on the other, and they can switch back and forth between Green and Red teams.

L and M can each also be facilitators in various other solutions. For example, if L is the facilitator on the Green Team (because she is always on Green), then O is facilitator on Red, forcing J to join L as a member on Green. At least one of K or M would go to the Red Team with O, because there have to be at least two on each team, and then the other of K and M can go anywhere you want.

Let us know if that all worked out!
 swong1267
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#43510
Can you go over the templates for this game?
 Adam Tyson
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#43533
I'm not sure I would recommend templates on this game, swong, but if I did I would probably set up 4 of them, broken down this way:

Green has 3, Red has 2, O facilitates Green
Green has 3, Red has 2, O facilitates Red
Green has 2, Red has 3, O facilitates Green
Green has 2, Red has 3, O facilitates Red

Try that and you will quickly see why it's not a great approach. There's a ton of unknowns in every template. Who facilitates the other team? Where are M and K? Only one template answers that question. This game simply isn't restricted enough to justify a template approach (and I am a guy who does templates all the time, way more than many of my colleagues).

Rather than templates, I would just take note of the numeric distributions and the O/J issue (probably with a not-block and a little "hurdle the uncertainty" to set them up as split options, one per group), and then head into the questions. Mini-diagrams can be done as needed, as with the last two questions. Give that a try and let us know how it works out!
 kyunglt
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#45287
Hello. Can someone please post the set up for this game, along with the answers? I had quite a problem with it and need to see if my answers are correct.

Thanks.
 Francis O'Rourke
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#45426
Hi Kyunglt,

For discussion of the individual questions, check out the individual forum posts, which you can find here

This is a balanced, partially defined two-group grouping game. The real difficulties in this game are figuring out which group has two members and which has three and keeping track of the facilitator.

Our variables are the students J, K, L, M, and P and we must place them in either the Red or the Green group.

One group will have two members and the other will have three, so I immediately wrote down two separate game boards, alternating which group had two members. You may also simply write down the minimum number of spaces in each group (two) and keep in mind that there will a a third member in one of the groups.

The scenario also tells us that one member of each group is a facilitator. I showed this to myself by drawing a star under one of the spaces in each group. You can also choose to label one of the spaces with an f. Make sure though to clearly write this smaller as a subscript or in italics. People with less than neat writing may have trouble, confusing this facilitator symbol as a symbol for another student.

The first rule tells us that J and O are on different teams. You can show this with a not-block rule, or with a negative biconditional J :dblline: O. Both of these will tell oyu to always split up J and O.

L must be in the Green room, but we do not know whether she is a facilitator or not. I would place L in one of the spaces of the Green room in my diagram at this point.

K is not a facilitator, so I would make a simple not law like so: Kf. In other words, show that K may not be placed in the facilitator roll by show you may never see K with a subscript F next to it (or whatever equivalent symbol you choose to use).

Olga must be a facilitator, so Draw a clear Of below your other rules.

Now at this point a lot of people will be tempted to draw out every possible template, starting with splitting the board into two numeric distributions. I agree with what Adam wrote above, since I don't believe that forming templates for this game would be worth the time required for most students.

Even if you do them successfully, there is a lot of uncertainty in each template. If you know that you can do templates quickly, and doing so consistently helps you out, here is what I would come up with:


If Olga is on the Green team with one other person, then J or M must be the facilitator for the red group:

- ..... K
L ..... J/M
Of ..... J/Mf
G ..... R


If Olga is on the Green team with two other people then L and K or M must join her, but we don't have a lot of information about the Red group:

K/M ..... -
L ..... J/K/M
Of ..... J/K/M
G ..... R


If Olga is on the Red team with two other people, then we can place everyone into the two groups, but we do not know who is the facilitator for the Green group:

- ..... M
L ..... K
J ..... Of
G ..... R

If Olga is on the Red team with one other people, then we don't know much besides J and L must be on the Green team.

Let me know if this helps, or if you have further questions! :-D
 Kellyg
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#45961
Hi,

If you would not recommend a template approach, then how would you recommend diagramming these rules? Simply writing them out with no template?
 Malila Robinson
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#46322
Hi Kellyg,
As Adam suggested above: "Rather than templates, I would just take note of the numeric distributions and the O/J issue (probably with a not-block and a little "hurdle the uncertainty" to set them up as split options, one per group), and then head into the questions. Mini-diagrams can be done as needed, as with the last two questions."

So yes, you would focus on diagramming the rules, but as with all games, you would look for inferences that will be useful. In this game the numerical distribution aspect gives you a few restrictions that are helpful so that is a great place to start.
Hope that helps!
-Malila

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