Potentially voiding, need advice

[JohnZarrilli48]

First, I'd like to say that I'm not some random who is looking for advice even though I've never contributed to Powerscore. I've purchased all the Bibles and the Logical reasoning type training book. Although I didn't take a course with Powerscore (I didn't take a course with anyone), I've made some contribution.

I'm considering voiding this test, but first I wanted to consult the masses for some much-needed wisdom and advice. Any and all replies are very much appreciated.

This is my first time taking the LSAT, but I want to apply this cycle. I want to attend a T14 and was typically scoring 170+ on my PTs. I thought I did slightly worse than average in the LR and RC sections due to test day nerves that affected my ability to reason clearly and sharply. However, nothing too damaging.

Unfortunately, I shot myself in the foot in the LG section. I misinterpreted a grouping rule (e.g. instead of putting Y in a group with Z in accordance with the rule, I put Y in a group with K), and realized my critical mistake only after answering all of that game's questions. So I had to redo that game, which left me only 5 minutes for the last game. I basically guessed for a lot of questions on the last game.

Knowing how I typically do on all of the sections, I probably scored around a 165. I will retake in November. Even though most schools say they look at the highest score, should I void?

[James Finch]

Hi John,

Glad to hear that the Bibles have helped you out! So it sounds like you had some trouble on one game. I'm assuming that this was a scored, not experimental, section. How many questions were affected? 3? 5? If it's not that many, you may still score quite well. It may be worth it just to see how you actually did, as it sounds like there's a decent chance you still did well enough to be accepted into a T14 school, some of which have LSAT median scores in the high 160's. If it were me, I wouldn't cancel unless I was sure I did significantly worse than I should (5 or more points) and doubt I would cancel based upon being rushed in one game, but it's ultimately a personal decision.

For a more general but in-depth breakdown of score cancellation, you can look here, here, and here (in the comments).

Hope this helps!

[Dave Killoran]

Hey John

Thanks for the question and I'm sorry you got tripped up by that rule Let me add another link to this discussion: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/do-law ... high-score

The current status is that EVERY school uses just your high score. So, there's very little incentive to cancel unless it's a certain disaster with zero chance of hitting an acceptable score and you know you are retaking. Does your 165 qualify as that? I don't know, but ask yourself that question and use the answer as a guide. Hopefully that gives a solid direction one way or the other

[JohnZarrilli48]

Hi James,

Thank you very much for the reply and the very useful links! To answer your question/commentary, I only had one LG section on test day, so it wasn't the experimental. To provide some more detail, game 2 is where I ran into problems. I breezed through game 1 and then I was on my last question of game 2 and I realized I copied one of the rules down incorrectly. Instead of redoing game 2 then and there, perhaps I made a stupid decision and went on to game 3. I thought game 3 was easy, but everything after this moment is suspect in my mind. I did game 3, redid game 2, and had exactly 5 minutes to do game 4. I was nervous/anxious this whole time after realizing my mistake. I don't know how many questions there were in game 4, but I guess that would be useful information. If I had to guess, I would say I probably answered half correctly. Maybe 2/5 or 3/6. Combine that with the fact that I rushed games 2 and 3 and I'd probably say I got AT LEAST 4-5 wrong, no doubt it could be more.

The LRs were a blur to me. I can't really remember those sections that well. I finished, but I remember not having a great feeling. Usually I get about 3-6 LR wrong total (both sections combined), 2 on a really good day. I feel like this time I probably hit closer to 6, maybe more. I just remember being stumped on a few questions, which is usually never the case for me.

I'm usually 2-4 wrong on RC and I remember one of the earlier sections being harder than usual. Moreover, I was rushed on the last passage. I finished, but had to go VERY VERY fast and I don't think it's a very forgiving passage in rushed conditions (Plate Tectonics). Not that it was hard to understand, just a lot of unfamiliar words/sciencey terms/relationships between variables that were hard to memorize and get a good grasp on the first read through.

Overall, I'm probably looking at around 15 or so wrong. Could be more, if I was lucky, maybe 2-3 less. Definitely not 170+ regardless.

Sorry to write you a mini-Bible, but I thought this would perhaps change your calculus. This decision is weighing on me and the information about how schools weigh multiple lsat scores is murky. Experts suggest that they only look at the highest, but various t-14 schools say they average or look at everything. So I don't know what to think. Why would Law Schools include an addendum to explain discrepancies in LSAT scores if they actually didn't care?

[JohnZarrilli48]

Hi John,

Glad to hear that the Bibles have helped you out! So it sounds like you had some trouble on one game. I'm assuming that this was a scored, not experimental, section. How many questions were affected? 3? 5? If it's not that many, you may still score quite well. It may be worth it just to see how you actually did, as it sounds like there's a decent chance you still did well enough to be accepted into a T14 school, some of which have LSAT median scores in the high 160's. If it were me, I wouldn't cancel unless I was sure I did significantly worse than I should (5 or more points) and doubt I would cancel based upon being rushed in one game, but it's ultimately a personal decision.

For a more general but in-depth breakdown of score cancellation, you can look here, here, and here (in the comments).

Hope this helps!

Hi James, I replied to you above. Thank you very much for the help/advice.

[JohnZarrilli48]

Hey John

Thanks for the question and I'm sorry you got tripped up by that rule Let me add another link to this discussion: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/do-law ... high-score

The current status is that EVERY school uses just your high score. So, there's very little incentive to cancel unless it's a certain disaster with zero chance of hitting an acceptable score and you know you are retaking. Does your 165 qualify as that? I don't know, but ask yourself that question and use the answer as a guide. Hopefully that gives a solid direction one way or the other

David,

Thank you very much for that link and for the advice on what to do.

After doing some research today, I was convinced that it would be useful to cancel because the schools themselves say they average/look at all of them. That article you linked convinced me otherwise. I have one more question that I posed to James above that I hope you don't take as a challenge. I recognize that you know far more about LSAT/admissions than I could ever possibly know. I just wan't to make sure I'm covering all my bases before making a very important decision.

Why, if law schools only look at the highest score, do they include an addendum giving an applicant the opportunity to explain why they have significant discrepancies in their reported LSAT scores? This seems to suggest that they at least care a little.

Thank you so much,

John

[Dave Killoran]

Sorry to write you a mini-Bible

Lol, that's ok, details are always helpful!

This decision is weighing on me and the information about how schools weigh multiple lsat scores is murky. Experts suggest that they only look at the highest, but various t-14 schools say they average or look at everything. So I don't know what to think.

I know how you feel but read my link—it explains why those statements about averaging are not to be trusted, and it comes from a T25 admissions officer who works with former deans from most of the T14. It's an unimpeachable source

Why would Law Schools include an addendum to explain discrepancies in LSAT scores if they actually didn't care?

This is also a holdover from earlier days, and it gives students who have the worry you have an opportunity to talk about what happened. Most of the time we recommend that students don't address it.


Last questions: how far over 170 were you scoring on a regular basis? I'm trying to determine how much of a variance 165 would be, although again it really doesn't matter to the schools.

Thanks!

[JohnZarrilli48]

Last questions: how far over 170 were you scoring on a regular basis? I'm trying to determine how much of a variance 165 would be, although again it really doesn't matter to the schools.

Thanks!

David,

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. You've cleared up a lot of my concerns. I would say only using the modern LSATs as my sample (PT70+, I was scoring higher on the earlier ones), I probably averaged 170/171. I definitely hit 173/174 a few times, though. On a bad day, I would usually do no lower than 167.

Thanks,

John

[Dave Killoran]

Ok, that's helpful! With that info, I don't see a reason to cancel. Your variance is such that you are likely within a standard deviation or two of your "normal" range, and while it may come in low it's possible it won't. And if it does, it still doesn't matter

However, if you do feel compelled to cancel, that's fine too. I just don't see it as necessary. Thanks!