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General questions relating to law school or law school admissions.
 Runlikea
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Oct 03, 2012
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#5919
Hello Powerscore folks!

I could really use some advice on a December re-take / re-application question. I sort of don't know what to do here and could use some help sorting out my options.

I applied a few years ago, at the way end of the cycle, in a peak admissions year, with a not-so-stellar LSAT, and did decently. Not my target schools (in the top five), but places to which I would be okay with going. For various reasons, I decided to wait and am now re-applying.

My LSAT is in fact still valid, but I a) would really like to get into one of my targets, b) have little margin for future un/under-employment, c) would like to go into public service, so need a top school with a very good debt forgiveness plan, and d) KNOW I can get a much better score. Even at the time, my score was at the low end of my practice test range. And it's below median for most of the top ten, and below the top five by about 4-5 points. (My GPA, thankfully, is at or above median almost everywhere.)

But I won't get a better score on the October administration, in three days. Right now, I run a very serious risk of testing below my previous score (which is ludicrous, but I'll ask about in the prep forum). At this point, I'm really really frustrated... you know, sort of watching my career dreams (and security) disappear. And while I know for certain that I can do better, I also know that, approaching the December exam, I won't have as much time to study and don't want to bet everything on a score that never materializes.

So, I guess my best questions are:
- Do I apply ASAP with the existing score to schools I am reasonably certain I can get in to, and then wait on target schools for the December score? The risk there is that I'll be putting myself in a worse position at those targets by applying later (where the early apps could really make a difference), especially if the LSAT score never gets up to snuff. Again, I am a borderline candidate - at or above median for GPA, below for LSAT, stellar undergrad career, and I'd guess work experience comes out about even.
- Or, do I apply ASAP everywhere, and risk getting a quick rejection from the targets? Is there a timeframe in which I could apply so that they get the new score before they actually evaluate the application? I guess the goals is to get in the queue early, so my application is evaluated as soon as possible, but still late enough to get the potential LSAT bump.
- And finally, I got a few waitlists last time; how likely is it that an increased LSAT is going to get me in off of a waitlist?

Any advice would be greatly greatly appreciated!
 Anne Chaconas
PowerScore Staff
  • PowerScore Staff
  • Posts: 98
  • Joined: Mar 08, 2011
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#5935
Hey Runlikea,

It is hard for me to give you a concrete idea of what you should do without knowing the specific schools, GPA, and LSAT score we're dealing with here--when it comes to law school, the specifics matter. However, I can give you some general advice:

If you apply with the same numbers you had before, don't expect different results. Numbers rule king in law school admissions, and will largely determine your application's fate. If you're "reasonably certain" that you can get into some schools with the numbers you have (and, most importantly, you know that you would be fine attending any of those schools and that they meet your financial criteria for LRAPs and loan forgiveness) then go ahead and apply--but keep in mind that if you were waitlisted/rejected at some of them, this is very likely to happen again (particularly since they will ask you if you have applied before, and will check out your previous application and see nothing has changed).

The problem with waiting to apply to T5 schools until after the December LSAT is that you're basically putting all your eggs in one basket. If you don't improve, now you're applying with TWO subpar scores. If you score lower, it looks even worse. Even if you do improve, it needs to be a solid enough improvement that it essentially negates your previous score (which means it needs to be more than 2-3 points, which is the standard LSAT deviation for scores--you really will need to at least hit a 4-5 point increase, if not more, and then include an addendum explaining what you did to increase your score so drastically, lest schools see both scores as aberrations and depend more on your average as an indicator of your actual LSAT potential).

Now, about your questions:

Do I apply ASAP with the existing score to schools I am reasonably certain I can get in to, and then wait on target schools for the December score? The risk there is that I'll be putting myself in a worse position at those targets by applying later (where the early apps could really make a difference), especially if the LSAT score never gets up to snuff. Again, I am a borderline candidate - at or above median for GPA, below for LSAT, stellar undergrad career, and I'd guess work experience comes out about even.

I answered the actual question you ask in the paragraphs above, but I did want to mention: the LSAT is often the most important part of your application. If it is below the median, you're swimming against the current. GPA will help, as will academic pedigree and work experience. However, given the caliber of school you're going for, your competition is likely going to trounce you in the LSAT department. Remember, the T5 is not at a loss for applicants with LSAT scores and GPAs above their medians with excellent work experience. Your job is to make yourself as competitive as possible; having a below-median LSAT score means you start the race with a significant handicap already.

Or, do I apply ASAP everywhere, and risk getting a quick rejection from the targets?

Again, let me repeat: If you apply with the same numbers you did before, don't expect a different result. If you got rejected before, there isn't really a "risk" that you will get rejected again; there's a very, very good chance that you will be.

Is there a timeframe in which I could apply so that they get the new score before they actually evaluate the application? I guess the goals is to get in the queue early, so my application is evaluated as soon as possible, but still late enough to get the potential LSAT bump.

There really isn't a way to game the system when it comes to getting your application in the queue. If you want schools to have your December LSAT score handy, you'll have to wait until after the December LSAT to submit your applications (and preferably until after December LSAT scores are out, to guarantee that your Law School Report will include that score). Otherwise, there's a good chance that the Law School Report will only include your previous LSAT score. If you tell schools you've taken the December LSAT and to please wait for that score, then they'll wait until the December LSAT scores are ready to request your Report and review your application, so whatever spot you had in the queue (if schools even use a queue method, which many don't) is negated anyway.

And finally, I got a few waitlists last time; how likely is it that an increased LSAT is going to get me in off of a waitlist?

It depends on the increase. If it's 2-3 points, it's possible, but not likely. More than that, and your chances increase. Again, without specifics, it's hard to say.

Two final points:

If you're going to be applying with the same numbers to the same schools you did before, make sure everything else in your application is updated and improved. New essays, revised résumé, updated/different (if possible) letters of rec. Schools will pull up your previous app and compare. Don't make them look at the exact same thing; otherwise, why reason would they possibly have for giving you a different result?

► I know this is probably not what you want to hear, but it would probably benefit you to wait and apply at the beginning of the cycle next year. It seems like you're rushing and panicking about this right now, leaving it all until the last minute, and will end up applying at the tail end of the cycle again, and with uncertain numbers. If you instead focused on taking the June 2013 LSAT, getting your apps in order with all new materials over the summer, and then submitting in October 2013, you would give yourself a better chance of succeeding at the level you want.

I hope this helps. Best of luck with whatever you ultimately decide to do!
 Runlikea
  • Posts: 6
  • Joined: Oct 03, 2012
|
#5969
Hi Anne!

Thank you so much for your advice and detailed response. Great info, and I hope it also help to clarify things for others in similar situations.

I guess it really was wishful to think there would be some way to get both a December LSAT and an early application bump. But if I'm reading you right, without different numbers, the early admissions bump wouldn't make a noticeable difference in T5 acceptances anyway?

Knowing that it's important to change everything is also really helpful, since a number of people (who are probably not that knowledgeable about the process) had just advised me to re-submit everything the same. I'm not sure what I would ask recommenders to update though (especially for those from undergrad).

I have to say it's unlikely that I will wait another year. While generally I think it's always a good thing to consider, I do want to get on with it. So I guess it's down to previous admissions results if I can't increase my score. Which in the end, I guess isn't the end of the world.

Thanks again!
Runlikea
 Anne Chaconas
PowerScore Staff
  • PowerScore Staff
  • Posts: 98
  • Joined: Mar 08, 2011
|
#5994
You're correct--without different numbers, it won't make much of a difference if you apply early to the T5. They can pretty accurately predict the kind of applicant pool they'll get every year, so you're more than likely going to get the same results. Of course, exceptions can and do happen, but you don't want to be hanging your hat on the potential of an exception.

Recommendation letters can be hard to update or change. Typically, if you're looking to update them, a good idea is to at least get ONE new recommender (in your case, perhaps your direct supervisor, since you've been out of school for a while now, working), just so that schools have a good idea of your CURRENT potential as well as your previous potential. Have this new professional recommender address the same things an academic one would: Ability to learn, willingness to take on difficult tasks, leadership characteristics, tenacity, etc. A lot of the skills that work in the working world translate nicely to law school, so it shouldn't be that hard to write a professional recommendation.

Updating the rest of your app as much as possible is a no-brainer. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result--same thing goes for law school apps. You are not the same person who wrote your application essays years ago--why would you submit the same essays? You have new experiences now, new outlooks, new skills. Show schools that you have improved and grown in the intervening years.

If you're definitely applying this year, then make sure everything is ready to go as SOON as December LSAT scores are available. Then you'll at least submit in early January. You won't get an early bump, but you'll still get ahead of the last-minute rush crowd.

Hope that helps!

Anne

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