Setup and Rule Diagrams

[deck1134]

Hi PowerScore Instructors,

When I first did this game, I made about ten "templates" (as it were) and then rusehd through the questions, similar to the assembly pattern game. I am just not sure how to know how many templates to make. I know that it can be good to put some "test shots" out there at the start of a game, but maybe I got a little carried away. How many do you recommend doing?

[Adam Tyson]

10 is a lot, Deck, and I would recommend fewer than that. As you can see from my explanation, I only did 3, and that was enough to make a few inferences that might be useful. You should recognize fairly early in this process that there are a LOT of potential solutions, too many to do them all, and so instead you should make choices about a few hypotheticals designed to ferret out some inferences, like seeing if W can ever go earlier than last. I think 5 is about the max that I would suggest - if you haven't made any solid inferences by then, you aren't likely to, so get to work on the questions. Otherwise you are probably just spinning your wheels and wasting time.

[T.B.Justin]

Hooray, my favorite (recent) LSAT game, the Employees and Offices game.

This game is an example of a "Pattern Game." However, before we discuss the particularities of this and similar games, let me offer a few words of general advice. Most LSAT preparation involves mastering your approach first to linear/order relationships and second to grouping relationships. There are a small minority of LSAT games that do not fit within these rubrics (circular, mapping, pattern, etc.). Should you feel intimidated by such a game? Absolutely not. While they may be unfamiliar, you will find that following the rules and being strategic about your approach to the questions will often make such games not only feasible but in some respects faster and easier than games with which you are more familiar.

Basically, the LSAC is banking on the intimidation factor. You haven't been practicing these games very much (because there aren't that many of them), so you don't know what to do.

To begin, once you establish that this game doesn't fit into one of your common categories, do not spend an excessive amount of time on either setup or deductions.

Instead first note the important information, then proceed first to a global list question, if there is one, then to local questions, and finally to everything else, saving any rule substitutions for last.

I see what you're trying to do with your setup, but you needn't try to turn this game inside out. Just follow the instructions.

J : Y X Z W
L : X Z W Y
P : Y Z X W
T : X Y Z W

the restrictions are like, duh.

so make a couple notes. First, it seems like everyone likes X and Y. Okay, so really, no matter what, it seems like X and Y are going to get chosen earlier in most cases. You could note the two cases in which Y and X could be chosen third (T, then L or J, then P, respectively) or not. No big deal. Also you might notice that no one wants W. Probably gonna be close to last.

That's it. Jump into the questions.

13. Global list. A) J and L both last, doesn't work. B) J third, okay. L first, okay. P last, okay. T second, okay.

Pick B! you're done.

16. P gets W, what CBT? Well, he's last. A doesn't seem to work, move on. B doesn't look promising, move on. C, no way, move on. J get's X, definitely doesn't work. He would get Y if first or L or T would get X before him. L select Z, sure, why not. Answer is E.

Do you see how this works? It kinda sucks, but it's kinda refreshing in a way. You just follow the rules to get to the answer. Don't waste too much time on the setup. Just be smart about the questions. Don't get intimidated, and when you find the answer, pick it and move on.

Hey Jon,

I get this.

I only got snagged by the first global question in this game. Answer choices B + E both seemed promising, since they both had each office ranked 1 through 4. After reading your explanation, I realized that answer choice E is incorrect, because L would have been able to select X yet they selected Z.


I appreciate your input on this, kudos!

[alberto]

Good morning will be brief, its Alberto.
This confounded game I tried I almost getting the gist however, I feel like I am in Las Vegas slot machine placing coin after coin hence: Until after 50 tries, I finally win the jackpot(by the way I do not believe in gambling just speaking metaphorically). With that said: The proverbial Employees and the random office space:How and why its this answer:JPLT? Furthermore why: W will be last pick, I am missing something on this rubics cube of limitless solutions? Respectfully please explain. Is the answer to why is base on the rule which stated: Each employee selects only one office, meaning no repeats being a violation? Further do not know what office is ranked what.... which ones could be any of them ranked the highest or the lowest and once picked no do overs and no rejections allowed..., right? Thanks.

[alberto]

I do not like to leave things unfinished It bugs me: Its Alberto again, and have another questions and opinion. I been thinking about my question to you Adam or anybody else that has solved this gambling convolution. I figure out maybe if I see it again.....? Used the Separation Principle from the advance linear game and the possible overlap even though the rule stated: used once cannot be repeated really? Furthermore, the grouping game section of Hurdle uncertainty to some degree? I used the Separation Principle I think that is how you arrived at: JLPT and the combinations(Template and possibilites thereof).
Message for Mr. Adam since he gave me great advice and respected what i stated about the notorious computer virus. Thank you I wonder if its Separation Principle. I tried at least if I am off the mark. Good afternoon.

[Brook Miscoski]

Alberto,

Some clarification as to your question is needed.

In general, this is a hard game, and you just need to focus on how it will be played.

Imagine that each employee wrote down their choices on a sheet of paper and put the paper in a hat. Then the sheets are drawn.

1st choice--you'll pull out an employee's list, and award either office X or Y.
2nd choice--you'll pull out a second list, and award one of the remaining offices.
etc....

It's easier to think about the game if you just approach it that way. Let weird games be weird, don't try to force them into something. You can, like Adam suggests, try a few iterations to see how it works.

[lledford16]

Hopefully aiming this @ Jonathan Evans,

On question #14, why was the answer A over D? I see that in the third ranking for each employee, 3/4 have different choices. Is this almost a probability answer - where if 2/4 select the third ranking, they're more likely to get different positions than if 3/4 are selected(where 2/4 could overlap with Z)? If it's not, why would you just not pick D? I'm just trying to sit and break apart each answer choice.

This game obviously threw me for a loop and I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, but maybe it's not meant to be fully understood.

Thanks so much!

Laura

[alberto]

Hey Brook, I shall be brief, and good afternoon and thank you. This is Alberto. I just saw your answer today May 13th. I was not over stressing the game nor I was over thinking it, I clearly was being a matter of fact about things and asked a straight forward question. And, I was trying to understanding how to play....., the game...., case and point . Thereby, the reason why I was asking questions as to see simply if the method to arrive at the specific result was separation principle or overlaping used to get those answers. And I asked a friend who state and reminded me about those odd ball games are sometimes called : Iterations. I actually forgotten so mystery solved hence. But thank you anyway Brook, and I know other similar iteration games are around and will practice on them to get a general idea.( Just to clarify, not all but a bit pattern games do have some degree of iterations however, I need to focus on the main bread and butter of Logic games, the backbone of it all for the LSAT exam, in accordance to what Dave and Jon stressed: Linear, Grouping Pure sequencing and the Hybrid of Linear and Grouping get the foundations down cold and the must be true could be true and so on. I am trying and working hard. Thanks).

[Adam Tyson]

I'm not Jonathan, lledford16, but I'll try to fill in for him! For Question 14 on this game, the correct answer is actually C, not A. At least one employee has to select their first choice, because someone has to go first! It's not about probability at all - there is nothing probable about this game, only what is possible, what is necessary, and what is impossible.

Why not A? Because there are two different offices that are ranked first by the different employees. One partial hypothetical shows it's not mandatory that at most one person gets their first choice of office. If J and L are the first two, in either order, they will each get their first choice (J will get Y and L will get X).

Why not D? Because nobody has to get their second choice! Imagine if P and T are the first two, in either order. P will get Y and T will get X, each getting their first pick. Now, imagine that J goes third - what will he get? His first two choices are taken, so he will get his third choice, which is Z. L ends up going last, and gets his third choice too, which is W. Nobody got their second choice and nobody got their last choice!

I wouldn't suggest coming up with hypotheticals for these answer, though, but would do as Jonathan did in his explanation - mark a few as contenders, and when I get to answer C I can immediately see that it must be true that someone gets their first choice. That's good enough for me to cut the process short, select that answer, and be done with it!

Alberto: I want to be clear that the order of JLPT is not the only solution to this game. In fact, there are 24 unique orders in which the four employees could select their offices, based on the mathematical approach called a "factorial", represented by the notation "4!". There are 4 people who can go first. Once one of them goes first, there are 3 remaining options to go second; then there are 2 people who could go third; and finally, just one person will be left to go last. The math there is 4x3x2x1=24.

We chose to play with the order of JLPT simply because that is the order in which the names are listed, so it seemed natural if we were to try one hypothetical situation it would be that one. But we could have started with any order at all. PLTJ, perhaps, or TPJL, or LTPJ. Each order determines the specific combination of employees with offices, although some different orders will result in the same combinations. For example, if P selects first and L selects second, P will select Y (his first choice) and L will select X (his first choice), but the same combination will happen if L selects first and P selects second. Try creating three or four different hypothetical orders and see who ends up with which office in each case, and you will probably have a clearer understanding of the game once you have done so.