Engineering Background Admission Questions

[nwang121]

Hi,

I have an undergrad degree in Materials Science & Engineering from UofMichigan, and I am interested in pursuing IP/patent prosecution. I don't have a lot of peers/mentors heading into the law world from an engineering background, and I had a few questions for admissions.

1. I have an undergrad GPA of 3.7 and am looking at a LSAT of around high 167-170 (based on practice tests, am taking the Feb LSAT). Are T14 schools realistic for me application wise? I know especially for the top of the T14, my GPA falls below 25%, but is there a chance there is more lenient consideration when looking at engineering GPAs since they tend to be lower? For example, should schools like NYU/Columbia/Stanford be considered out of reach while schools like Berkeley/Michigan are more realistic? Or are Berkeley/Michigan still out of reach, and I should be looking lower? I will also have a year of being a patent agent at a big law firm when I apply, and would that change my chances?

2. Should I be looking at schools with strong IP departments? For example, Berkeley/Stanford are schools in the T14 with really strong IP departments. However, looking at other national rankings, the top IP schools tend to be more local schools (Houston, Chicago-Kent, etc.). I am not tied to any specific location, but I want to eventually work in a large city on either coast (NYC, LA, SF, DC) which leads me to want to go to a school that recruits nationally. Would it be better for me to go to/apply to higher ranked schools that aren't necessarily as strong in IP? On the other hand, should I avoid schools that have essentially no technical aspects (IP at Columbia is mostly media/fashion) for employability aspects or does that not really matter?

Thank you, and sorry for the long message!

Nicole

[Dave Killoran]

Hi Nicole,

Thanks for the questions! Some thoughts below:

I have an undergrad degree in Materials Science & Engineering from UofMichigan, and I am interested in pursuing IP/patent prosecution. I don't have a lot of peers/mentors heading into the law world from an engineering background, and I had a few questions for admissions.

1. I have an undergrad GPA of 3.7 and am looking at a LSAT of around high 167-170 (based on practice tests, am taking the Feb LSAT). Are T14 schools realistic for me application wise? I know especially for the top of the T14, my GPA falls below 25%, but is there a chance there is more lenient consideration when looking at engineering GPAs since they tend to be lower? For example, should schools like NYU/Columbia/Stanford be considered out of reach while schools like Berkeley/Michigan are more realistic? Or are Berkeley/Michigan still out of reach, and I should be looking lower? I will also have a year of being a patent agent at a big law firm when I apply, and would that change my chances?

Interestingly, your exact LSAT score will play a major role here. At 167, your chances at the top half of the T14 are not good and you'd be a real longshot at any of those schools. A few of the schools in the bottom half would give you a better shot, but still under 50%. Change that score to 170, and the top half of the T14 improves (still under half though, but at a place like NYU you'd be close to 50-50) but in the bottom half of the T14 your chances would change dramatically, and it's almost a lock that you'd get into at least one schools in the bottom half.

Your profile is a strong one since female engineers are less common, and you will have patent experience. Those will boost you a bit, but since the process is so numbers driven they don't change the calculus enough to tip things over.
So, you are in range right now with your practice, and if you can deliver at the upper end of where you are scoring, you will be in great shape

2. Should I be looking at schools with strong IP departments? For example, Berkeley/Stanford are schools in the T14 with really strong IP departments. However, looking at other national rankings, the top IP schools tend to be more local schools (Houston, Chicago-Kent, etc.). I am not tied to any specific location, but I want to eventually work in a large city on either coast (NYC, LA, SF, DC) which leads me to want to go to a school that recruits nationally. Would it be better for me to go to/apply to higher ranked schools that aren't necessarily as strong in IP? On the other hand, should I avoid schools that have essentially no technical aspects (IP at Columbia is mostly media/fashion) for employability aspects or does that not really matter?

The legal field is all about reputation and elitisim, and for top jobs, it's the name brand of the school that matters most. So, while Chicago-Kent has a great program in IP, I'd take any of the T14s over that school (and any T25, for that matter). Employability here is mostly linked to people recognizing that the school you went to is competitive and has a strong reputation, so that should be your preference, all other things equal. The bigger name will also come with geographical portability, allowing you to work anywhere in the country.

Also, the legal curriculum is largely standardized, so the majority of your education comes in core courses like Conlaw, Crim, etc. That's the foundation of your degree, so when possible, seek the best overall school. No one would question your degree form Columbia, and it would open doors anywhere you wanted to go (and if you found the IP program lacking, that's a great opportunity to help improve it).

The golden goose here is, as you mention, a school like Stanford or Berkeley, which are not only highly ranked overall but sitting in the center of the IP universe right now. Your LSAT score will go a long way toward determining your chances there.

Please let me know if that helps. Thanks!

[nwang121]

Thank you Dave, that's really helpful! I'll keep working at the LSAT these next few weeks

[nwang121]

Also, sorry just thought of another question! How do these aspects change with early decision? Thanks!

Nicole

[Dave Killoran]

It really depends on the school. Some show no difference, others a plus, and others a negative: https://blog.powerscore.com/lsat/applyi ... not-to-ed/.

Key point: aside from schools where you get a full scholarship, Early Decision largely strips you of your negotiating power as far as financial options. You can't play schools against each other (which happens all the time now), and you are bound to go to that school even if you have to pay for the full ride. So, think carefully about ED!

Thanks!