- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Mar 27, 2020 11:58 am
#74519
Below is a law school admissions question from a student, Victor, and a response from PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran.
Victor: "Hi Dave,
I am a Powerscore Course Alum–your course materials and instructors were vital to helping me increase my LSAT and create the following opportunities.
I have deposited at William & Mary with a scholarship that will cover roughly 85% of tuition each year. With low COL in Williamsburg, I foresee the overall cost of attendance to be roughly 70k. I am confident I could pay it all out of pocket without taking out any loans based on having saved my earnings carefully since graduating undergrad a few years back.
I have recently been contacted by Michigan and Georgetown gauging my interest if they were to accept me off of their respective waitlists.
While I am definitely interested in the prestige and higher ranking that comes with UM & Gtown, the costs of attending each at sticker price would dictate me going into $250-300k of debt.
Michigan: USN: 9; ATL: 8; LST Employment: 89.3%; Large Firm: 54%; FedClerk: 13.7%; Underemployment: 6.2%; LST Total Sticker COA: $305k.
Georgetown: USN: 14; ATL: 16; LST Employment: 81.8%; Large Firm: 56%; FedClerk: 4.5%; Underemployment: 11.8%; LST Total Sticker COA: $350k.
William & Mary: USN: 39; ATL: 27; LST Employment: 79.7%; Large Firm: 23%; FedClerk: 9.1%; Underemployment: 10.2%; LST Total COA factoring in Scholarship: $70k.
My goals: I grew up in Pennsylvania and would love to return to the Mid-Atlantic post law school. Working in PA, DC, DE, VA, and NC all appeal to me. I am not Biglaw or bust. However, I am not very interested in PI or Government work, and I do want to do firm work and earn a strong starting salary. I would be open to clerking at some point (why is W&M killing Gtown in the dept.?), but that is definitely not my main focus. I should note that I attended an Ivy league undergrad (I’ve heard this can slightly help with differentiation landing biglaw or other competitive firm jobs?). I also should mention that I have been out of undergrad for 3 years now and hope to be starting a family right after law school. For this reason, I am definitely debt averse and would love to maximize my career prospects without the crippling debt.
Currently leaning towards taking the $ at W&M. I have visited all 3 and loved them all! I eliminated some other schools that I didn’t love or my Significant Other wouldn’t be comfortable with.
Please let me know if I am crazy to take the money and run and pass on the prestige of the two higher ranked schools. Thanks so much!!!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Victor,
Thanks for the message! And thanks for being a student, I’m glad we could help you.
You have some great options here, so congratulations on your success! When you have three schools in play, we need to narrow that down first, and when you look at the data (that you so kindly included—thank you!) the first comparison I’d make is Michigan vs Georgetown. These are the two expensive schools, so let’s run them against each other (as above, as well as here: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/wm/michigan/gulc/). For me at least, Michigan is the clear winner on multiple fronts (employment/clerkships), and especially so when you include your COL. So, I’d drop Georgetown and that leaves your real decision here (in my eyes) as William & Mary vs Michigan.
The difference in cost here is $235K, and the better employment results you listed above are what that gets you (as well as the prestige of attending the #9 schools vs the #39 school, which of course affects those job outcomes). For that extra debt, on a monthly basis over 10 years you’d be looking at $2435 per month. That’s a lot, and I’m personally not sure it justifies Michigan based on your stated goals. If you want to start a family after graduating, you are going to be locked into a job that has enough financial power to pay off that $235K, and those jobs are most often very long hours. Not a great combo for your life goals. William & Mary gives you full job flexibility since you’re basically debt-free on graduation, and that’s an incredibly powerful outcome from a school with a solid reputation.
The counterargument—just for devil’s advocate sake—is that prestige is everything in the legal field, you’d be marrying an Ivy degree with a T10 law school degree, and in the Midwest the Michigan name would be extra-powerful. With decent grades, you’d have some extremely attractive choices coming out of school.
So, bottom line, do I think you are crazy? No, your decision makes complete sense here. Not an easy one for sure, but an undeniably justifiable one. Good luck in school, and enjoy W&M!"
Victor: "Hi Dave,
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your fast response. You guys really do things the right way at Powerscore, and I am sure people are continuing to take notice. I don’t think any of these options would be there for me without your class/books/advice etc.
Thank you again for putting so much time and thought into your response, it means the world to have my initial analysis and lean toward W&M validated by you!!"
Victor: "Hi Dave,
I am a Powerscore Course Alum–your course materials and instructors were vital to helping me increase my LSAT and create the following opportunities.
I have deposited at William & Mary with a scholarship that will cover roughly 85% of tuition each year. With low COL in Williamsburg, I foresee the overall cost of attendance to be roughly 70k. I am confident I could pay it all out of pocket without taking out any loans based on having saved my earnings carefully since graduating undergrad a few years back.
I have recently been contacted by Michigan and Georgetown gauging my interest if they were to accept me off of their respective waitlists.
While I am definitely interested in the prestige and higher ranking that comes with UM & Gtown, the costs of attending each at sticker price would dictate me going into $250-300k of debt.
Michigan: USN: 9; ATL: 8; LST Employment: 89.3%; Large Firm: 54%; FedClerk: 13.7%; Underemployment: 6.2%; LST Total Sticker COA: $305k.
Georgetown: USN: 14; ATL: 16; LST Employment: 81.8%; Large Firm: 56%; FedClerk: 4.5%; Underemployment: 11.8%; LST Total Sticker COA: $350k.
William & Mary: USN: 39; ATL: 27; LST Employment: 79.7%; Large Firm: 23%; FedClerk: 9.1%; Underemployment: 10.2%; LST Total COA factoring in Scholarship: $70k.
My goals: I grew up in Pennsylvania and would love to return to the Mid-Atlantic post law school. Working in PA, DC, DE, VA, and NC all appeal to me. I am not Biglaw or bust. However, I am not very interested in PI or Government work, and I do want to do firm work and earn a strong starting salary. I would be open to clerking at some point (why is W&M killing Gtown in the dept.?), but that is definitely not my main focus. I should note that I attended an Ivy league undergrad (I’ve heard this can slightly help with differentiation landing biglaw or other competitive firm jobs?). I also should mention that I have been out of undergrad for 3 years now and hope to be starting a family right after law school. For this reason, I am definitely debt averse and would love to maximize my career prospects without the crippling debt.
Currently leaning towards taking the $ at W&M. I have visited all 3 and loved them all! I eliminated some other schools that I didn’t love or my Significant Other wouldn’t be comfortable with.
Please let me know if I am crazy to take the money and run and pass on the prestige of the two higher ranked schools. Thanks so much!!!"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Victor,
Thanks for the message! And thanks for being a student, I’m glad we could help you.
You have some great options here, so congratulations on your success! When you have three schools in play, we need to narrow that down first, and when you look at the data (that you so kindly included—thank you!) the first comparison I’d make is Michigan vs Georgetown. These are the two expensive schools, so let’s run them against each other (as above, as well as here: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/wm/michigan/gulc/). For me at least, Michigan is the clear winner on multiple fronts (employment/clerkships), and especially so when you include your COL. So, I’d drop Georgetown and that leaves your real decision here (in my eyes) as William & Mary vs Michigan.
The difference in cost here is $235K, and the better employment results you listed above are what that gets you (as well as the prestige of attending the #9 schools vs the #39 school, which of course affects those job outcomes). For that extra debt, on a monthly basis over 10 years you’d be looking at $2435 per month. That’s a lot, and I’m personally not sure it justifies Michigan based on your stated goals. If you want to start a family after graduating, you are going to be locked into a job that has enough financial power to pay off that $235K, and those jobs are most often very long hours. Not a great combo for your life goals. William & Mary gives you full job flexibility since you’re basically debt-free on graduation, and that’s an incredibly powerful outcome from a school with a solid reputation.
The counterargument—just for devil’s advocate sake—is that prestige is everything in the legal field, you’d be marrying an Ivy degree with a T10 law school degree, and in the Midwest the Michigan name would be extra-powerful. With decent grades, you’d have some extremely attractive choices coming out of school.
So, bottom line, do I think you are crazy? No, your decision makes complete sense here. Not an easy one for sure, but an undeniably justifiable one. Good luck in school, and enjoy W&M!"
Victor: "Hi Dave,
Can’t tell you how much I appreciate your fast response. You guys really do things the right way at Powerscore, and I am sure people are continuing to take notice. I don’t think any of these options would be there for me without your class/books/advice etc.
Thank you again for putting so much time and thought into your response, it means the world to have my initial analysis and lean toward W&M validated by you!!"