- PowerScore Staff
- Posts: 9010
- Joined: Feb 02, 2011
- Fri Apr 17, 2020 9:13 am
#74901
Below is a conversation between accepted law student Justin and PowerScore CEO Dave Killoran, regarding Justin's law school choice.
Justin: "Hello!
PowerScore’s LSAT prep course is a big part of what got me into multiple law schools…so I think it wise to come back and ask for some advice on choosing where to actually go now. To start out, my career goal is to become a deputy district attorney…And no matter where I go to school, I hope to eventually return and work in my home of Orange county, California. With that being said, here are my offers:
Pepperdine (47th)- $60,000 scholarship
[Pro: Highest ranked school I got into; and I love the area and environment//Con: This scholarship offer is far lower than the others and would put me in a lot of debt.
{Note: I am willing to take on the debt if the rank would actually be worth the gained career benefits…I’m just not sure if that’s the case.}
Loyola Marymount (62) – $129,000 scholarship
[Pro: I’m very happy with this scholarship offer and their trial advocacy program is #5 in the nation (Great for the type of work I hope to do.)// Con: To be frank, I’m not a huge fan of Los Angeles. I don’t love the idea of living/working there during and after school…and fear I may be miserable in the city.] (Should I suck it up in light of its high trial advocacy rank? Maybe I’ll learn to enjoy LA?)
University of San Diego (83) – $114,000 scholarship
[Pro: I basically love everything about this school and am happy with the scholarship amount// Con: They are not known for specializing in the type of law I want to do; and I’ve been told their “lower” rank may hurt my chances with job opportunities.] (Is this an unfounded concern?)
Chapman (111) – $ Full Ride
[Pro: this was my undergrad and going here means I could live at home and pay no money for anything// Con: Deep down I feel I’m ready to go somewhere different and may grow more as a person elsewhere…Also, I have again been told the rank will do harm when trying to establish my career.] (Is this also an unfounded concern?)
Thank you for giving me the tools necessary to get into law school. And thank you for now taking the time to help me make the right choice in choosing the school that best fits me.
Best,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Justin,
Thanks for the question! Would you mind adding one piece of information here for all schools? That would be full Cost of Attendance for all three years, total. I’d like to see your exact debt for each school.
Thanks!"
Justin: "Hello sir!
COA for all three years:
Pepperdine- 196,080
Loyola- 147,420
USD- 138,642
Chapman- 40,101
It may be worth mentioning that my parents will help me pay off my debt.
Thank you,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Justin,
Thanks for the reply and updated info. It’s helpful, and I also really appreciate your personal insights into how you’d feel at each school. That makes a difference!
Let’s start by addressing one idea that you reference, which is concern over going to a school that doesn’t seem to specialize in your area of interest. to be honest, so much of law curriculum is standardized that it’s not a huge issue. Most employers (not all, especially those focused on IP and tax) don’t worry so much about the specialty of a school but rather it’s overall perceived quality (in other words, rank). The legal field is all about reputation, and for better or worse the rank of the school you attended makes a long-term difference for most people (not everyone, but most). Which leads to the next point that rank typically matters, and when you look at employment outcomes you see that very clearly in most instances. Consider for example the comparison between the two schools with the most similar total debt: Loyola and USD. Per LST, the comparison is as follows: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/loyola-la/sandiego/. On employment you can see that Loyola–which is ranked more highly as you noted–solidly bests USD. I have a really hard time recommending USD from a financial perspective when for a relatively small sum of $9K you can get much better outcomes. Of course, I also noted what you said about living in LA, and I’m also a believer that if you don’t like your environs, you won’t perform well. So, both options have issues in my opinion. An aside: I lived in LA for years and enjoyed it. Living downtown is not where I’d live–head towards West LA or near UCLA. Tons of downtown law students (such as those from Loyola and USC) live away from their schools and out on the westside.
If you add Chapman to the above comparison, you can see why it’s relatively cheap: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/loyo ... o/chapman/. The employment outcomes get worse overall (they’ve improved in recent years but still not great). But then let’s note what you said about careers: you want to be a DA and be in the OC. So Chapman is more attractive there because of location and connections. If debt avoidance is the top goal, Chapman is the clear winner. The question when compared to the other two schools is: are Loyola/USD worth 100K more in debt to gain outcomes that are improved but still not slam dunks? I’m not sure they are worth it. $40 or $50K maybe, but $100K extra is a lot.
So then Pepperdine. I love Pepperdine and the location cannot be beat (seriously–the view is ridiculous). But employment wise they aren’t worth $50K more than Loyola; their numbers are a bit worse in a number of instances (biglaw, for example). So, while it’s a million dollar view, it’s not worth more than Loyola (to me, not to everyone). I’d likely remove them from this equation because I don’t think they are worth more than some of your other cheaper choices.
So, just on employment numbers and debt, it would be Chapman vs Loyola. And that’s where it comes down to you. What’s the bigger issue to you–dislike of LA? Desire to get away from your undergrad school and try something new? Lower debt or higher rank/employment? I see a real debate here since it’s a $100K difference, and the more expensive school doesn’t exactly thrill you.
I hope that helps, but keep in mind this is my thoughts only and this is your choice. You have to go where you feel you will do best–that’s will outweigh all things in the long run. Please let me know if it made sense!"
Justin: "This makes a lot of sense! Thank you for giving me such an in-depth response. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me a breakdown like this…Leaves me with a lot to think about. I’m gonna dwell on this info for a bit and will be making a final decision within the next few days.
Best,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Sounds good and glad we could help! If you don’t mind, please keep me posted on the decision you make. I’d love to know what you ultimately decide!"
Justin: "Hello!
PowerScore’s LSAT prep course is a big part of what got me into multiple law schools…so I think it wise to come back and ask for some advice on choosing where to actually go now. To start out, my career goal is to become a deputy district attorney…And no matter where I go to school, I hope to eventually return and work in my home of Orange county, California. With that being said, here are my offers:
Pepperdine (47th)- $60,000 scholarship
[Pro: Highest ranked school I got into; and I love the area and environment//Con: This scholarship offer is far lower than the others and would put me in a lot of debt.
{Note: I am willing to take on the debt if the rank would actually be worth the gained career benefits…I’m just not sure if that’s the case.}
Loyola Marymount (62) – $129,000 scholarship
[Pro: I’m very happy with this scholarship offer and their trial advocacy program is #5 in the nation (Great for the type of work I hope to do.)// Con: To be frank, I’m not a huge fan of Los Angeles. I don’t love the idea of living/working there during and after school…and fear I may be miserable in the city.] (Should I suck it up in light of its high trial advocacy rank? Maybe I’ll learn to enjoy LA?)
University of San Diego (83) – $114,000 scholarship
[Pro: I basically love everything about this school and am happy with the scholarship amount// Con: They are not known for specializing in the type of law I want to do; and I’ve been told their “lower” rank may hurt my chances with job opportunities.] (Is this an unfounded concern?)
Chapman (111) – $ Full Ride
[Pro: this was my undergrad and going here means I could live at home and pay no money for anything// Con: Deep down I feel I’m ready to go somewhere different and may grow more as a person elsewhere…Also, I have again been told the rank will do harm when trying to establish my career.] (Is this also an unfounded concern?)
Thank you for giving me the tools necessary to get into law school. And thank you for now taking the time to help me make the right choice in choosing the school that best fits me.
Best,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Hey Justin,
Thanks for the question! Would you mind adding one piece of information here for all schools? That would be full Cost of Attendance for all three years, total. I’d like to see your exact debt for each school.
Thanks!"
Justin: "Hello sir!
COA for all three years:
Pepperdine- 196,080
Loyola- 147,420
USD- 138,642
Chapman- 40,101
It may be worth mentioning that my parents will help me pay off my debt.
Thank you,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Hi Justin,
Thanks for the reply and updated info. It’s helpful, and I also really appreciate your personal insights into how you’d feel at each school. That makes a difference!
Let’s start by addressing one idea that you reference, which is concern over going to a school that doesn’t seem to specialize in your area of interest. to be honest, so much of law curriculum is standardized that it’s not a huge issue. Most employers (not all, especially those focused on IP and tax) don’t worry so much about the specialty of a school but rather it’s overall perceived quality (in other words, rank). The legal field is all about reputation, and for better or worse the rank of the school you attended makes a long-term difference for most people (not everyone, but most). Which leads to the next point that rank typically matters, and when you look at employment outcomes you see that very clearly in most instances. Consider for example the comparison between the two schools with the most similar total debt: Loyola and USD. Per LST, the comparison is as follows: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/loyola-la/sandiego/. On employment you can see that Loyola–which is ranked more highly as you noted–solidly bests USD. I have a really hard time recommending USD from a financial perspective when for a relatively small sum of $9K you can get much better outcomes. Of course, I also noted what you said about living in LA, and I’m also a believer that if you don’t like your environs, you won’t perform well. So, both options have issues in my opinion. An aside: I lived in LA for years and enjoyed it. Living downtown is not where I’d live–head towards West LA or near UCLA. Tons of downtown law students (such as those from Loyola and USC) live away from their schools and out on the westside.
If you add Chapman to the above comparison, you can see why it’s relatively cheap: https://www.lstreports.com/compare/loyo ... o/chapman/. The employment outcomes get worse overall (they’ve improved in recent years but still not great). But then let’s note what you said about careers: you want to be a DA and be in the OC. So Chapman is more attractive there because of location and connections. If debt avoidance is the top goal, Chapman is the clear winner. The question when compared to the other two schools is: are Loyola/USD worth 100K more in debt to gain outcomes that are improved but still not slam dunks? I’m not sure they are worth it. $40 or $50K maybe, but $100K extra is a lot.
So then Pepperdine. I love Pepperdine and the location cannot be beat (seriously–the view is ridiculous). But employment wise they aren’t worth $50K more than Loyola; their numbers are a bit worse in a number of instances (biglaw, for example). So, while it’s a million dollar view, it’s not worth more than Loyola (to me, not to everyone). I’d likely remove them from this equation because I don’t think they are worth more than some of your other cheaper choices.
So, just on employment numbers and debt, it would be Chapman vs Loyola. And that’s where it comes down to you. What’s the bigger issue to you–dislike of LA? Desire to get away from your undergrad school and try something new? Lower debt or higher rank/employment? I see a real debate here since it’s a $100K difference, and the more expensive school doesn’t exactly thrill you.
I hope that helps, but keep in mind this is my thoughts only and this is your choice. You have to go where you feel you will do best–that’s will outweigh all things in the long run. Please let me know if it made sense!"
Justin: "This makes a lot of sense! Thank you for giving me such an in-depth response. I really appreciate you taking the time to give me a breakdown like this…Leaves me with a lot to think about. I’m gonna dwell on this info for a bit and will be making a final decision within the next few days.
Best,
Justin"
Dave Killoran: "Sounds good and glad we could help! If you don’t mind, please keep me posted on the decision you make. I’d love to know what you ultimately decide!"